Finding the right buck for my dairy goat

[savingdogs]

Okay, so I'm the city girl moved country in my middle age, who fell in love with dairy goats last summer, now have two quasi mini nubian does about 14 months old and I'm dying to breed them and get my first milk! Advice needed! I tried this question over at BYH already and ........well, lets just say Free suggested I try over here.

I realize the first freshening might not be much but I would like to make soap so won't need but a few cups and want to try the taste, etc. A safe and healthy delivery of something saleable is the goal. We were thinking smaller buck this time, mini nubian next year. Learn to milk our girls as we wean the babies, teach them more about the stanchion, etc. Second breeding we will probably have a bigger pen by then and want to keep another doe, but not this time around. Planning an ultimate herd size of not more than five to seven.

My does are actually 1/2 full nubian and 3/4 nigy mixed with 1/4 pygmy. Mutts. So they are too small to breed to a full nubian and I'm having trouble finding a mini nubian buck that isn't half a state away, nor would their offspring ever be purebred. The one that is coming in heat (Molly) looks somewhat like her 1/8 pygmy heritage so I was thinking of breeding her to one since there are many locally available for stud cheap, one just a few miles down the road although he isn't particularly what we personally would want. We love the nubian ears, but Molly herself has airplane ears.

My other goal is to make my money back on the breeding and disbudding costs, etc., so I'd like to choose the right buck!~free milk is the goal here.

Do you generally take your girl to the buck for awhile? I don't want a bucky smell here and don't want the two females delivering at the same time. Isn't that hard on them?

Second doe is a little larger but is four-teated so we are not as anxious to breed her to just any buck. I'd like to find something known to have good udders in their line. And if I'm gonna pay more, I'd rather it be a real mini-nubian, so I'm considering just not breeding her this year unless I hear of the right thing. She looks like a mini-nubian so I would not want the same possible pygmy buck as I might choose for Molly. Or perhaps I should take the BYH advice I got and think about not breeding her at all because of the teat problem, which would be a change from our original plans. She has the better, calmer personality and I was thinking it would be easier to milk her as far as her personality goes. I think she looks milkable but I'm not an expert, but the folks who sold her to us are and thought we could milk her. I know, they were the sellers, but they were truly nice folks and spent the time pointing out her udders to us when we would never have looked at them until much later, being novices.

Would it be a lot to take on, having two females with babies the first time in the same spring anyways?
I need a little advice too on the correct questions to ask someone offering their buck for stud. My goats were from a healthy herd whose parents were tested, but have not performed any tests myself as we are 100 percent isolated. Will buck owners want to see this testing is done? Or if they don't, should I be worried their buck could carry illness? This is the question which really caused the ...ahem ....differences in opinion over at BYC so please, if you address this part... be nice. I'm not looking to spread disease or be sloppy, but I also don't have any extra money to spend, that is why I'm asking these questions to be SMART!

We are not interested in eating our goat offspring or selling them for slaughter, not a commentary on those who do, we eat our chickens and ducks, but goats are just too loving and friendly, or at least ours are, to think about eating them unless TSHTF. And I'd have a lot of chickens and ducks to eat before I could eat Molly or Ginger's baby!

Thanks for reading my long post and for anyone who takes the time to answer! I appreciate all of you.

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Movin' to the country, gonna eat alot of Peaches.
Online

 

[ohiofarmgirl]

hey SD! welcome to over here! golly sorry about the firestorm "over there." yikes!

you can check out the last couple pages of my journal for some great info that Blackbird and others gave... if i could get my stupid internet connection to work.. i'd cut-n-paste a link for you (darnit!).

in the meantime, good for you for working this out now and doing your research.

there are not silly or dumb questions here

 

[Blackbird]

Hi there!

A lot of the info that Free, OFG, and K gave you over on BYH was great.
A couple things that I would add is that if you want to make the most money out of the kids, find a buck that has a good milk history, registered matters to some people but when it comes down to it (and since your does are crosses) milk production is usually more important. An animal that has good milk lines usually sells better, if you were to sell any. AND, if you didn't sell and kept them yourself, you would have animals that would potentially be good milkers, or at least somewhat improved over their dams. Just depends really.

If you want a smaller buck to breed to, but still more dairy than meat, you might want to look for a Nigerian Dwarf (I think K mentioned this?) Pygmy goats are actually a meat breed and are known for having a hard time giving birth.

Boer goats (typically a meat breed) often have four teats. The two higher in front are usually useless, but the larger ones are definitely milk-able. Are you sure they might not have some Boer in them versus Nubian? (In Boer goat registry I'm pretty sure four teats is acceptable, or at least it always was, not that big of a deal either way)

I like to have my does giving birth as close together a possible, that way if a mother rejects one, or something bad happens, a baby could have another chance with another momma, and, there is more colostrum to go around if you have a shortage.

 

[Shiloh Acres]

I read your thread over there.

Honestly, as far as costs and selling price of kids, I think it's going to depend on your local market.

Where I am, cross kids sell for $25 to $50. Generally bucklings are easily had for 25, and it would take luck or a special one to get more. I paid $25 for a mixed bottle baby doeling and $50 for a reasonably well-bred fb Nubian weanling doeling (no papers).

Since younger goats usually produce fewer kids, I could lose money here if I paid a $50 stud fee, paid for disbudding ($5 to $10, vets maybe more), and ended up with a singleton or twin bucklings. I might make a very little if I got lucky enough to get twin doelings. Triplets might be rare for a youngish FF?

The whole economy could be different where you are though. Goats are pretty plentiful here. I very rarely see one for $300. Very nice registered doelings from good lines generally run $125 to $200 tops. NO ONE apparently offers stud service here. If I had the space and felt confident about it, I could possibly make a good bit using my buck at stud once he's too related to my herd to keep.

I really took the attitude of getting the best I could at a LOW price, since I'm new to goats. After a couple years of learning, if I want a better herd, I'll be in a better position to know how to choose them.

I know what you mean about dogs. I raised a few litters, very carefully chosen, with expert guidance, because I love my breed and wanted to improve on my already-good female. The person who offered guidance had pre-orders for pups years in the future, helped me place pups, and bought some from me. The point I'm trying to carefully make is that it was as far from a puppy mill operation as I could imagine. I would never take the kind of approach with dogs as I have for goats.

It's not that goats are less important than dogs or that I'm not caring for them properly. It's just that utility livestock are different. You can take nice mutt chickens and raise eggs. You can take nice mutt rabbits and raise meat. You might be ahead of the game starting out with a breed and line produced specifically for your needs. But I don't consider it irresponsible to get eggs and meat and milk from mutt chickens, rabbits, and goats.

Guess I'm just sticking up for your side. If you don't want to keep kids, you are breeding to freshen. For your part. In that case any buck will do. However, you want to sell the kids. Want to sell them as millers? Try to find a buck from good milking lines. Expect them to be for slaughter? Maybe a Pygmy dad is better. Hope they'll be pets. Try to find a flashy buck with a sweet personality. At least within these guidelines, do the best you can. Like you said, they are crossbred. Their kids are going to be crossbred no matter what buck you use. If you don't have a particular plan for the kids in your own breeding program, it's easier. Just do your best to produce saleable kids.

I know you pretty much know all this. Just offering support.

 

[freemotion]

Wow, your other thread took on a life of its own!

Wanna use my buckling?

 

[ksalvagno]

I think you need to decide what YOU want the goats for. If it is milk, then I would go for a dairy breed buck. If you can find one with good milking lines for the price you are looking for, even better.

Flash sells. The more colored the kids are, the better people like them. If your kids also have some good dairy in there too, then even the plain colored females will probably sell well. I noticed lately that people are wanting to be more self sufficient and have their own milk. These are people will small acreage, originally from the city and just want a couple goats because they love them and want some milk. Not even necessarily looking to make cheese and yogurt. Price them right and make sure they are friendly and you are on your way.

I wouldn't rule out the 4 teated doe. At least breed her once and see how she milks. There is no reason why she can't be a good milker just because of 4 teats. More than likely 2 of the teats aren't even working teats anyway. If you were breeding for show or something, then obviously you wouldn't want to breed but since you have her, why not try at least once and see how it goes.

It really is no trouble to have 2 giving birth around the same time. Then the kids have other kids to play with. You never know if you are getting one or 4 from a doe, especially if it is their first time.

 

[aggieterpkatie]

I'd also recommend breeding both at the same time, because it's just easier to manage them both the same way (like increased feed during end of gestation and through lactation).

And since your goats are already mutts, I wouldn't worry too much about which buck you choose. I mean, obviously a healthy goat is best, and preferrably one with a great milking mother. What I'm saying is, don't worry about not having a registered buck, etc.

I'd recommend going to see the buck and farm where he stays. Look at the conditions, look at how the animals are acting. Are they healthy? Do you see any lumps on anyone? Do the owners seem to know their goats? Do they seem responsible? Etc.

I have used other peoples bucks/rams, and also studded out my own animals. I've never had any problems, but I generally know the people and know how they keep their animals.

Good luck!

 

[freemotion]

I've been fortunate enough to be able to take a good look at my bucklings' mothers. My first one was a prize-winning show goat, for whatever that is worth, milking lines. We will see, next year, how that translates to "the bucket!"

 

[ksalvagno]

I saw the post on the other forum but decided to respond here. How closely related are the bucks to your girls?

 

[savingdogs]

Well as I posted "over there" I may have to postpone or downsize due to recent financial hits.....but that makes your advice all the more important to me. I can't screw up here!

I am one of the families described here that just wants a little milk for drinking, cheese and soap, not running a dairy farm. We have a huge amount of extra alder, blackberry and other assorted brush here on Dunegan mountain, on our extremely sloping land. Goats are really very practical. We would only eat goat after TSHTF and after the chickens and ducks were mostly gone. lol I'm not vegan or anything it is just an ick factor thing, it would be like eating my dog or cat. I'm certainly a carnivore but it would be a long time before I'm hungry enough to eat my beloveds or their babies.
Maybe just not desperate enough yet.

I'm learning:
1. Perhaps pygmy isn't such a good idea and nigy is a better one if I don't want to raise meat goats.

2. If we can afford it, it might be easier to breed them both, not harder like I thought.

3. Ginger the two-teated might not be so bad after all (breeders were pretty sure she was product of full nubian breaching fence and getting to their 3/4 nigy, 1/4 pygmy doe, my goats are triplets and two resemble the nubian dad).

4. Phooey on R! This was much better advice.