MountainMom
Power Conserver
I'm thinking of having one installed. Any thoughts? What about the ductless type? I was considering one of these. Recommendations?
Heat Pumps
- Thread starter MountainMom
- Start date
Your a little sparse on information, how about location, house size and age, number of rooms, well insulated or leaky, what is your existing heat setup, and everything else I didn't list.MountainMom said:
Mini-splits are nice and cost about $1000 or so installed for a large room.
- Thread starter
- #3
MountainMom
Power Conserver
My details are as follows:
My house is about 1500 sq ft or so. I currently have a fine wood stove + forced air furnace with ductwork only downstairs. The house is probably 100 years old and is moderately well insulated.
I live in a NW mountain climate with snow on the ground 3 or 4 months, and no need for air conditioning.
The upstairs has 2 bedrooms, plus a spare, good sized den type room at the top of the stairs. Downstairs has a living room kitchen area, plus a bedroom.
My house is about 1500 sq ft or so. I currently have a fine wood stove + forced air furnace with ductwork only downstairs. The house is probably 100 years old and is moderately well insulated.
I live in a NW mountain climate with snow on the ground 3 or 4 months, and no need for air conditioning.
The upstairs has 2 bedrooms, plus a spare, good sized den type room at the top of the stairs. Downstairs has a living room kitchen area, plus a bedroom.
Heat pumps are generally sized for the air conditioning load as making them big enough for the entire heat load will kill the system if put in cooling mode. Even so a heat pump can be cheaper to operate than electric when at the right outside temperatures.
Do you have gas or electric furnace on the main floor, is the furnace in a basement?
A rule of thumb which can be far and wide is 2 tons for AC and 80,000btu for heat for 1500sq.ft.
I would imagine if a tech came out to do a manual j calculation the numbers would be more precise. This would be recommended to do before anything else.
I would think if you want a ductless min-split just for the upstairs a 2 ton would be plenty giving 24,000 btus of heat above 47F, below that they start to de-rate and below 20F it is usually just as cheap to run electric heaters. This varies by unit type as some can go much lower and even into the minus zeros. A 2 ton may even be over sized.
A good name brand like Mitsubishi or Fujitsu can be quite expensive for a large single room unit and cost about $2000, installation by a tech is required and can cost several hundred more. Even smaller cheap no names will require a unit in each room and cost $600+ each plus installation.
A good mini-split will get you the tax credit whereas the cheap ones won't. Can you get ducts upstairs? a standard heat pump system added to you existing system can be cheaper especially if used in conjunction with natural gas or propane as auxiliary heat..
Of course spot heating or cooling is the most economical way to go and is what I do as I don't live in most of my house.
Do you have gas or electric furnace on the main floor, is the furnace in a basement?
A rule of thumb which can be far and wide is 2 tons for AC and 80,000btu for heat for 1500sq.ft.
I would imagine if a tech came out to do a manual j calculation the numbers would be more precise. This would be recommended to do before anything else.
I would think if you want a ductless min-split just for the upstairs a 2 ton would be plenty giving 24,000 btus of heat above 47F, below that they start to de-rate and below 20F it is usually just as cheap to run electric heaters. This varies by unit type as some can go much lower and even into the minus zeros. A 2 ton may even be over sized.
A good name brand like Mitsubishi or Fujitsu can be quite expensive for a large single room unit and cost about $2000, installation by a tech is required and can cost several hundred more. Even smaller cheap no names will require a unit in each room and cost $600+ each plus installation.
A good mini-split will get you the tax credit whereas the cheap ones won't. Can you get ducts upstairs? a standard heat pump system added to you existing system can be cheaper especially if used in conjunction with natural gas or propane as auxiliary heat..
Of course spot heating or cooling is the most economical way to go and is what I do as I don't live in most of my house.
- Thread starter
- #5
MountainMom
Power Conserver
So, spot heating with space heaters might be the most economical? My daughters are in High School now, and before you know it will be out of the house. Maybe it's absurd to think about forking over the money for this now.
Here is a portable baseboard style that can be less obtrusive as it can be kept almost flush to the wall.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_27169-13468...+_4294821482_4294937087_?Ns=p_product_price|1
Baseboard heaters are best placed on an outside wall so as to give a nice convective circular air flow, they will draw air across the floor warming it as it enters the heater to be rewarmed then follows up the outside wall to the ceiling then travels to the far inside wall and drops to the floor. This method heats a room more evenly then just placing a box heater in the middle of the room or having it on an inside wall which will draw cold floor air from the non-tempered outside wall.
A mini-split heat pump (HP) installed will most likely cost $1000 and baseboard (BB) heater $100 (this is for one room).
Heating cost for 4 months at 10 cents kWh would be about $100 a season for BB and $35 for HP saving $65 a year. The break even point is about 12 years but alas doubt the heat pump will last that long, plus they are very expensive to fix as one $500 circuit board will wipe out all your savings for the previous 6 years.
Total cost for 10 years HP
$1000 + $350 = $1350
Total cost for BB
$100 + $1000 = $1100
addendum - a whole house heat pump is a different story and are recommended in temperate zones rather than electric heat.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_27169-13468...+_4294821482_4294937087_?Ns=p_product_price|1
Baseboard heaters are best placed on an outside wall so as to give a nice convective circular air flow, they will draw air across the floor warming it as it enters the heater to be rewarmed then follows up the outside wall to the ceiling then travels to the far inside wall and drops to the floor. This method heats a room more evenly then just placing a box heater in the middle of the room or having it on an inside wall which will draw cold floor air from the non-tempered outside wall.
A mini-split heat pump (HP) installed will most likely cost $1000 and baseboard (BB) heater $100 (this is for one room).
Heating cost for 4 months at 10 cents kWh would be about $100 a season for BB and $35 for HP saving $65 a year. The break even point is about 12 years but alas doubt the heat pump will last that long, plus they are very expensive to fix as one $500 circuit board will wipe out all your savings for the previous 6 years.
Total cost for 10 years HP
$1000 + $350 = $1350
Total cost for BB
$100 + $1000 = $1100
addendum - a whole house heat pump is a different story and are recommended in temperate zones rather than electric heat.
- Thread starter
- #7
MountainMom
Power Conserver
Good information. So, a whole house heat pump sounds like the way to go, rather than a mini-split.
You need to get a couple of contractors out to do a "Manual J" calculation, it should take an hour or so - if they don't do it forget about them and go on to the next guys. You'd need a contractor for the mini-split anyways so make them work for it.MountainMom said:
A whole house heat pump is still not cheap by any means but in the long run it will pay if you only have electricity to heat with and an existing system to start with, $5000 would be a medium price installed. One mini per room at $1000 each can add up fast but needs no duct work.
Around the world, particularly in the USA and several parts of Europe, the use of GSHP systems is common. The ground source heat pump was actually invented more than 50 years ago, and continuous development has greatly improved its efficiency and reliability. It is now a proven, cost-effective, safe and environmentally friendly alternative to fossil fuels.
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