eliminating bills - homesteading

I don't go into animals expecting them to make me money, I go in expecting to substitute my grocery bills for feed bills and get a product from them instead of buying it. Selling kids buys hay for my milkers, etc. So I'm in a totally different place than someone who wants to make money (not save money) farming. It's more fun for me that way. If I was doing it full time trying to make a bunch of money I would probably not love it as much!

OK @Beekissed and @baymule what is the parasite/deworming deal with sheep? Similar to goats? And no grain necessary for Katahdins?

My husband goes wow... You seriously really want these darn sheep don't you? Haha! He's getting his bees in the spring, and I downsized my goat herd to 6 so I consider this a fair deal!

plus he is the one who insists on breeding pigs and heritage turkeys!

I just bought all the needed ingredients for a mineral lick, as recommended by Pat Coleby's Natural Sheep Care. I'll let you know how they do.

http://www.acresusa.com/natural-sheep-care

NH Homesteader said:

OK @Beekissed and @baymule what is the parasite/deworming deal with sheep? Similar to goats? And no grain necessary for Katahdins?

My husband goes wow... You seriously really want these darn sheep don't you? Haha! He's getting his bees in the spring, and I downsized my goat herd to 6 so I consider this a fair deal!

plus he is the one who insists on breeding pigs and heritage turkeys!

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Now, here's where it gets subjective. I like to use natural means for deworming and I don't do it on a frequent schedule...I feel like that just breeds resistant worms but not resistant sheep.

Here's a good place to learn about sheep of all kinds: http://www.sheep101.info/201/parasite.html

And the info there describes the best way to combat parasites in sheep. though I don't agree with all of it~I never agree with aggressive deworming...it's a multidirectional approach if one is to have long term success.

From what I've read from most of the goat owners on BYH, they favor short term solutions such as meds and worming schedules over the long term solutions such as culling for resistance, rotational grazing, etc, so not sure where your mind goes when you are thinking of a comparison between sheep and goats.

Here's a few excerpts from the articles to be found on that link..and a few mention Katahdins specifically in the entire article.

Genetics is probably the best long term strategy for controlling internal parasites in sheep. Some sheep breeds are naturally more resistant and resilient to internal parasites. They include the Florida (or Gulf Coast) Native and hair sheep breeds with tropical origins: St. Croix, Barbados Blackbelly (and its derivatives), and Katahdin. Grazing resistant breeds of sheep with susceptible breeds, may act to “sweep” pastures and reduce contamination to susceptible animals.

Regardless of the breed raised, producers can breed sheep which are more resistant to parasites by culling ewes that are persistently affected by parasites and favoring parasite resistant ewes and rams in their selection programs. Both fecal egg counts and FAMACHA© scores can be used to identify sheep with resistant and susceptible genetics.

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In the past, sheep producers relied heavily on anti-parasitic drugs called "anthelmintics" to control internal parasites in their flocks. But the long-time use and in some cases misuse of these drugs has resulted in parasites that have become increasingly resistant to anthelmintics. Drug resistance has been documented in all three drug families and is most commonly reported with ivermectin and the benzimidazoles. Some farms are experiencing complete anthelmintic failure.

In the U.S., few anthelmintics are FDA-approved for use in sheep and lambs, and no new drugs are likely to be developed. As a result, producers must develop more integrated programs for controlling parasites, which do not rely exclusively on drug therapy. They must also learn to use drugs more judiciously.

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As to the grains...that's subjective too. Some only give grains to hair sheep during periods of flushing, some don't even do it then if they are breeding and lambing when forage is optimal. The farmer I got my hair sheep from said he used to raise woollies and always supplemented with grain feeds but when he tried to do it with his hair sheep, they quickly lost condition and started having health problems, hoof problems, parasite increase, etc. He stopped supplementing grains except for periods of flushing at that point and his sheep started to recover their natural hardiness.

I gave very minimal grain feed to mine and only for a very short time each time, for flushing, but soon discovered that the pure Katahdin sheep did better on just grass and hay, while the St. Croix/Kat cross ewes didn't maintain as fat and sleek a body on the same simple grass based feed as the pure Kats during breeding/lambing/nursing.

To deworm or not to deworm, what to use to do it, to feed grain supplement or not during flushing...all these things are something one decides on their own after much study on the matter and even experimenting with their own stock on which way is best.

Here's a place that raises Kats that describe a little of how they manage their health and feeding: http://www.mistyoakskatahdins.com/management.htm

Thanks for all the information! I'll have more to comment on once I'm able to really look through it.

I was referring to rotational grazing and other prevention but also the recommendation I usually see on BYH of fecals before deworming. I don't deworm on a schedule. Out of all the goats I have had, my two most expensive and "well bred" pure Nigerians are the WORST for parasite resistance. They're killing me! Long term is to move away from them, but man I can't afford to just ditch them! I have a plan to get a pygmy buckling in the spring and raise some of the kids for meat.

Anyway, tomorrow I'll check all that info out! Thanks!

baymule said:

I just bought all the needed ingredients for a mineral lick, as recommended by Pat Coleby's Natural Sheep Care. I'll let you know how they do.

http://www.acresusa.com/natural-sheep-care

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Looks like that would be a good read, Bay. Back when I had sheep one couldn't find anything like that on the market and when I mentioned I wanted to do that on BYH, I was roundly attacked. Back then folks didn't tolerate talk about natural methods of raising animals much...even now it can get a bit touchy.

I used kelp meal and coarse salt for my livestock then...sheep, cows, even the chickens and dogs sampled it when they could. LOVE that stuff!

Yeah.... There are times I walk away from conversations over there...

So to be certified organic can you use chemical dewormers? I'm not planning on it... Just curious... I prefer natural whenever possible but everything I read over there has made me afraid of parasites and feel like I'm killing my goats if I don't use chemicals.

Sorry rant over. Not trying to be negative. Just has been bothering me a while. I'm done now.

This thread went from general homesteading to sheep real fast! Lol
I'm glad though, I'm very interested in these sheep. I've been on good old Pinterest looking up info about them today, NH Homesteader, if you don't have Pinterest you should definitely get one, I find it super helpful with looking up homesteading info.

I don't generally think of animals as a profit maker either, it can be pretty hard to make a profit and even if you are you should always be prepared to take a hit if something goes wrong, because it can, and it probably will.
So the way I'm trying work things, is I have my pets, the ones that I just put money in to, I've got 3 horses, a couple chihuahuas, and a cat (luckily the chihuahuas and cat barely cost anything to care for because they're small!), then I have my golden retrievers, which SHOULD make a profit, which isn't something I realized going into but after doing a lot of figuring I've come to the conclusion that it would actually be hard for them not to, which amazes me. Basically all the dogs would have to up and die or the dog market completely crash, so that's pretty good odds, I'm happy with them anyways, now if I make just a little bit of money, or a lot of money, depends on the market and how many puppies I lose/emergencies I have (as the case with any animals), and then my third category I have my homestead stuff. My goal that I'd be totally happy with is just having the animals and plants that it takes to provide for myself, and be able to use what I make from the animals to put back into them so I break even, if I happen to make a small profit, then that's great! But I won't plan for it or expect it. And I don't want to be throwing a ton of money into it either. Just break even and have food for myself, and I think that's a nice reasonable goal.
So here's the plan.. ish.
I have 7 acres to work with and X amount of money (which I do want to keep some back in case I DO have an emergancy). I can get a job if I need to, I know of at least two places that would hire me on the spot but I'm going to keep that on hold until I get settled into my house and see how things go. My parents have also generously offered to help me get things started. Okay anyways, rough guess is that 1 and a half acres is being used by the house, barns, garage, and arena (arena not yet built but it will be). Which leaves 5 and a half acres, and after looking around out there today I'd say a half acre is wooded. Some of its already fenced but not much. The wooded spot can easily be cleared or at the very least cleaned up a bit. I'll have 2 horses there for sure. My cousin will have 1 horse and a mini there for sure. Her horses are going to have a *estimated* 1/4 acre lot with a run in shelter (she's going to bring them out every day to graze in the yard/ be our lawn mowers). My 2 horses will have stalls in the barn, with very small runs (just a bit bigger than the stalls) and there's a half acre pasture connected to where the stalls will be, that's already fenced and has really nice grass where I can turn them out for a while every day. And I'll have my Jersey cow there at some point. So I can quite possibly fit 6 ewes (maybe more depending on the grass quality etc.) (I'll probably start with 3 to see how I like it). I also have an area by the house reserved for my garden. I've got too many chickens (I'll probably hatch and sell some chicks plus free range plus feed scraps to deter their costs), I have a couple little out buildings and an empty milk barn etc. that I can use for stuff too. So id like to brain storm on other ideas that'll help my homestead out. So far it's chickens, dairy cow, and a plan for sheep and also bees. Maaaybe a couple guinea hogs. Maybe. Should I add meat rabbits in as well? Anything else? Or would that pretty much cover it.. I don't have a lot of room to work with so I should probably think pretty small from now on.
Whew, sorry for the rambling!

Oh and side note.. I am surrounded on 3 sides by 80 or so acres of my uncles land, and it's pretty secluded which means trail rides for the horses and I could also probably tie them up some where or make a little hot wire corral for them where no one would ever see it or care about it so they can graze during the day, if I need/want to

First, ask "why" you add more. For sales, for self use?

For me, my goats are to milk -- I use the milk, make cheese, yogurt, soap, etc. & excess used to feed chickens & pigs. Soaps are used & sold at craft fairs. Kids are a necessity for having milk. They are sold (generally meat buyers) & some does kept to train as milkers, some sold young for future milkers, etc. I do keep buck but have plenty of room/graze.

Pigs were bought JUST to provide grass fed, chem free pork. Two gilts were included to farrow, sell young, keep couple for next yr butchering. Piglet sales cover cost of original purchase. They are also doing some plowing of a field for me. May not keep them past this coming Spring.

Chickens provide eggs for use & sales. Sales cover feed cost. Hatchlings provide replacements, sales, even roos for freezer camp.

My herd of mini horses are here for life as they are primarily my elders from breeding herd days. I owe them and they help with the grass. This 15 acre farm is heavy pasture, esp with the rains this year. As they dwindle (most are mid 20s to early 30s), I will consider a couple beef cows. Sell @ butcher time, keep a side for self. Again, grass used & freezer filled with good meat.

Your costs to maintain fence can be large. Do WELL with initial install and it will pay for itself in the long run both with durability and multi species containment. Hot wire can help preserve the primary fence!

Remember your choices will change as your farmstead matures, your interests change and your income opportunities present themselves. Start slow. Too much, too soon can burn you out (not to mention emptying bank account). That's just my take on it and "why" I have animals I do. Oh, I do as MUCH natural care & natural feeding as possible. Not certified organic but, use those methods.

Good points @Mini Horses . I would sit down and figure out just how much meat you eat and how much of that you can raise yourself. (oh and sorry about hijacking your thread, I would have started a new thread but you said you were interested so I left it!)

My husband grew up on a farm, primarily horse farm but they did some homesteading too. He knew a Iot about a lot of animals but some are new to him, like goats. Before we get a new animal I research it to death. Also we have a sort of unofficial rule of one new type of animal a year. We started with laying hens, then ducks (they're gone now). Then goats for milk and pigs for meat, then turkeys.

This spring we hope to get 2-3 sheep and bees. My husband has had bees before so we can go for two at once!

Bees are expensive, fencing is expensive. Rabbits would be (I think) less work and expense to start up.

You also will need to do rotational grazing with the sheep or you will end up with parasite issues. And you don't want them and the pigs sharing land. That's another consideration.