DeniseCharleson
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What is the ideal P:Ca ratio?pinkfox said:
Clabber = Dog Food ?
- Thread starter bubba1358
- Start date
Britesea
Sustainability Master
maybe for wild dogs and other canids, but domesticated dogs have been living with humans for so long- more than 100,000 years (it has been theorized by some anthropologists that the superior hunting ability of the dog/human team may have allowed humans to develop the cognitive abilities of the brain, rather than having to concentrate on pure survival)- and eating the same food as the humans they lived with, that they are slowly moving away from pure carnivore (like a cat, which is not truly domesticated). This is not to say they don't LIKE meat, and would happily limit their diet to just meat (like a few men I know!), but it's not necessarily good for them. Just ask a vet whether it would be ok to feed your dog with cat food, which has a much higher percentage of protein since cats are true carnivores.bubba1358 said:
when i had my sons dog staying....she really liked the whey from kefir...
would just lap it up...
and i pressure cooked...off parts...eg heart kidney, ...but
if i was making it again would add vegies...
and then grinded it all up and canned...
she loved it.....and was with the wasn't gonna use parts...so was economical...
would just lap it up...
and i pressure cooked...off parts...eg heart kidney, ...but
if i was making it again would add vegies...
and then grinded it all up and canned...
she loved it.....and was with the wasn't gonna use parts...so was economical...
pinkfox
Super Self-Sufficient
ctually the reason dogs cant eat cat food is because of the added thiamine, its much too high for dogs.
dogs evoled to eat raw meat and bones, and while pet food reps (ho teach vets) like to say dogs "need" grain ect, its been biologically proven false, the ph of a domesticated dogs stomach is exfactly the same as the dingo, coyote and wolf, the jaw structure of the majority of breeds nd the tooth structure of all breeds is developed to rip and tear flesh and bone,
while they have evoled with the human, humans re also not realy designed ot eat processed grain and the dog would hve been fed a mostly scrap meat diet gettngthe bits people wouldn't eat, things that fell off the spit or things too spoilt or damaged for human consumption.
you are right hwoever that dogs arenot OBLIGATE carnivores they can et vegetable matter (htough would naturally only get it "pre-chewed" and fruit and veggies wont hurt them (just watch for sugar content) ulike cats who realy do need a pure meat diet...
but theres a big reason many dogs are allergic to grain and a good reason there are so many grain free dog foods o the market now...as we evolve our knowledge of the dogs digestive system more and more are becoming aware that grain is not needed (nor realy desirable) in dogs diet.
if your going to feed grian it should be simple whole grain like rice, barley or oats, most dogs are at least mildly sensitive to corn wheet and soy.
and remember EVERY dog is different just like people, what works for one wont work for another no matter WHAT science and biology and such says...some dogs wil simply not do well on some diets...
in terms of calcium to phosphorous...
for rw feeding th ideal ratio is 1.2-1.5calcium to 1 phosphorous, however up to 2.5:1 calcium to phosphorous is fine for dogs, cats ideally need closer to an equal blance due to thiamine needs which are found primarily im muscle meat.
for raw feeders that generally means 10% bone, 10% organ (ie liver and kindney) and 80% muscle meat...(which includes heart and tounge) which is pretty much the average ratio of MOST animals...
the ratio of clcium to phosphorous in cows milk is 1:0.65 so its a little too high in calcium and would need to be balanced out with a little more phosperous (found primarily in muscle meat)
if im remembering correctly the Ca-P ratio for clabber remains the same as raw milk so if you wanted to do clabber id go with no mor than 50% of the diet clabber with something high in muscle meat for the other 1/2 if doing a home cooked and you want to add grain it should be no more than 10% grain with 10% organ and 80% meat of some kind since the clabber would take care of the calcium you wouldn't need to add much...a whole egg shell included 1-2 x per week along with the home made meat/grain base and the clabber should blance your right out.
dogs evoled to eat raw meat and bones, and while pet food reps (ho teach vets) like to say dogs "need" grain ect, its been biologically proven false, the ph of a domesticated dogs stomach is exfactly the same as the dingo, coyote and wolf, the jaw structure of the majority of breeds nd the tooth structure of all breeds is developed to rip and tear flesh and bone,
while they have evoled with the human, humans re also not realy designed ot eat processed grain and the dog would hve been fed a mostly scrap meat diet gettngthe bits people wouldn't eat, things that fell off the spit or things too spoilt or damaged for human consumption.
you are right hwoever that dogs arenot OBLIGATE carnivores they can et vegetable matter (htough would naturally only get it "pre-chewed" and fruit and veggies wont hurt them (just watch for sugar content) ulike cats who realy do need a pure meat diet...
but theres a big reason many dogs are allergic to grain and a good reason there are so many grain free dog foods o the market now...as we evolve our knowledge of the dogs digestive system more and more are becoming aware that grain is not needed (nor realy desirable) in dogs diet.
if your going to feed grian it should be simple whole grain like rice, barley or oats, most dogs are at least mildly sensitive to corn wheet and soy.
and remember EVERY dog is different just like people, what works for one wont work for another no matter WHAT science and biology and such says...some dogs wil simply not do well on some diets...
in terms of calcium to phosphorous...
for rw feeding th ideal ratio is 1.2-1.5calcium to 1 phosphorous, however up to 2.5:1 calcium to phosphorous is fine for dogs, cats ideally need closer to an equal blance due to thiamine needs which are found primarily im muscle meat.
for raw feeders that generally means 10% bone, 10% organ (ie liver and kindney) and 80% muscle meat...(which includes heart and tounge) which is pretty much the average ratio of MOST animals...
the ratio of clcium to phosphorous in cows milk is 1:0.65 so its a little too high in calcium and would need to be balanced out with a little more phosperous (found primarily in muscle meat)
if im remembering correctly the Ca-P ratio for clabber remains the same as raw milk so if you wanted to do clabber id go with no mor than 50% of the diet clabber with something high in muscle meat for the other 1/2 if doing a home cooked and you want to add grain it should be no more than 10% grain with 10% organ and 80% meat of some kind since the clabber would take care of the calcium you wouldn't need to add much...a whole egg shell included 1-2 x per week along with the home made meat/grain base and the clabber should blance your right out.
DeniseCharleson
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If, indeed, the ideal ratio is 1.2 - 1.5:1 Capinkfox said:
(with up to 2.5:1 Ca being fine), then cow's milk is not only fine but ideal. The USDA database shows that the Ca ratio of whole milk is just under 1.35:1 (100 gms of milk = 113mg of Ca and 84mg of P; 113/84 = 1.3452). There may be other reasons that cow's milk is appropriate or not appropriate for dogs, but it appears that the Ca
ratio is not one of them.- Thread starter
- #16
Awesome info everyone. Thank you.
Seems like the protein levels are good, the Ca is good, the lactose is broken down in the clabbering process...Provided some raw bones for dental health (usually 1 a day), are there any other reasons that clabber as a diet staple is NOT good?
Seems like the protein levels are good, the Ca
is good, the lactose is broken down in the clabbering process...Provided some raw bones for dental health (usually 1 a day), are there any other reasons that clabber as a diet staple is NOT good?
Britesea
Sustainability Master
I would say give it a try (change over slowly) and observe her closely. If there are digestive problems they will show up fairly quickly.
