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Lazy Gardener

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but there is a point of common sense too. So that is why I do not wholly promote organic farming when it comes to animals..... I grow an organic garden... have for 40 or more years.... and I do not like all the pesticides and herbicides being used. I think that we can do better with more WHOLISTIC type farming and gardening... But ... I also realize that there are trade offs for every type of farming
My gardening and farming philosophy is this: I use what I need to use in order to produce the needed result: In the garden, I will use what I must to prevent crops from being destroyed. That includes some Sevin, Permethrin. I need to get BT on my list. In the flock: I use permethrin, and have used some sevin. I also use wood ash. I need to get Ag lime into my repertoire. For persistent mite infestations, I use Ivermectin pour on. 6 - 8 drops per bird. Works like a charm. And after reading about the effective use of Ivermectin to treat covid, I have no qualms about using it on my birds. It's off label. So, I with-hold eggs for 7 days for my customers... but don't worry about that for my own use. Even if I used a LOT of chemicals in garden or flock, it would pale in comparison to the amount of residue that I would likely pick up on my hands by handling the produce at the grocer.
 

CrealCritter

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My gardening and farming philosophy is this: I use what I need to use in order to produce the needed result: In the garden, I will use what I must to prevent crops from being destroyed. That includes some Sevin, Permethrin. I need to get BT on my list. In the flock: I use permethrin, and have used some sevin. I also use wood ash. I need to get Ag lime into my repertoire. For persistent mite infestations, I use Ivermectin pour on. 6 - 8 drops per bird. Works like a charm. And after reading about the effective use of Ivermectin to treat covid, I have no qualms about using it on my birds. It's off label. So, I with-hold eggs for 7 days for my customers... but don't worry about that for my own use. Even if I used a LOT of chemicals in garden or flock, it would pale in comparison to the amount of residue that I would likely pick up on my hands by handling the produce at the grocer.

I draw the line with sevin, to me it's like setting off a nuke, it kills them all (beneficial & non-beneficial).

Now the only plant I use sevin on is eggplant, then it's only until it gets tall enough that the flea beatles don't devour it in a single day.
 

CLSranch

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Many personal use type individuals use 10x the amount of herbicides and pesticides just to have a pretty lawn as large ag. The large ag is limited the house in town is not.
 

Lazy Gardener

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DH's mother loves to feed the birds. One year, she noted that there were lots of birds hopping around on neighbor's lawn, and singing in their trees, while her yard was barren of bird activity. It took her a long time to put 2 and 2 together... with a lot of prompting from me. She had hired a "lawn service" to come and spray her lawn with combination of herbicide and insecticides. The birds wouldn't be caught dead on her property. (pun intended) She stopped the lawn service, and the birds came back.
 

farmerjan

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As for the personal use of pesticides and herbicides, it is true that many think that a little more will do a little better job... we are a society of more is better in many ways. It is true that the run off of suburban areas is much more toxic than that from many farms because of both the over use and the concentration of houses/lawns and concrete/asphalt roads.
Farmers have to take a class and get certified , then get recertified regularly in order to use pesticides and herbicides on crops. My son takes the recertification every year and we use very few chemicals. They are schooled on the damages, the problems with drift and run off, the dangers associated. Most are very conscientious. They should require the same for homeowners but they don't . It also gets very expensive to use the chemicals if you are doing very much acreage, so farmers are not going to overuse them.

I guess that using something like pyrethrin and permethrim is a chemical, so I have used pyrethrin on occasion in the garden...... I also use it as a spray on the dairy cattle in the barn before milking in order to give them a little relief and me a chance at a "non-kicking at the flies" milking. But I also have found that using DE as a feed through cuts down on the flies dramatically so don't need much for the cows, and I use it as a dust on the chickens and it seems to take care of any lice .... as well as using it as a feed additive and they don't seem to have any problems with worms anymore as well as seldom seeing lice. I will hand pick potato bugs and squash the eggs of the different pests that lay eggs on the underside of plant leaves. Just don't have alot of problems and I don't grow eggplant because the flea bettles come from the thin air and destroy the plants. Japanese beatles have been a scourge, but using m,ilky spore disease has helped. Don't know what the new garden will be like this year.
 

CLSranch

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Never used or even heard of feeding DE to cattle. I use it in the coop and dusting box. I use permethirin on cattle, horses and the chickens leg mites.
 

farmerjan

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I have been feeding DE in feed for years. We get our feed custom made.... we run a cow calf operation, and so get our feed by the ton delivered bulk. The best way to incorporate DE in a small operation is to add to the loose mineral/salt mix... or in a sweet feed. Our custom mix has about 100-150 lbs per TON.... very miniscule in the scheme of things.
Use like a TSP mixed in a 2 qt scoop of feed once or twice a week... or a pinch daily....
The same with our chicken feed...I have some purebred show birds, had a free range laying flock and also, I raise broilers (CCX) that I get from a couple commercial poultry houses when they come and get the birds.... I get the left over "culls" that are usually the small ones..... sometimes get 10, sometimes get 100 or more; about every 8 weeks or so if they leave any behind. Don't do them in the coldest weather because they come out of a climate temp controlled house and cannot take the cold shock.... So I also get a 16% layer feed delivered bulk.... 2 tons at a time..... and feed it to the layers and the ccx. I have the DE added to the feed when it is being made... I feed pellets so they don't waste it like a finer ground mash feed.
The DE actually is "rough enough" in the gut tract that it will puncture the soft bodies of worms/larvae and they will die and be expelled. It also does the same in the manure... as the larvae hatch from the eggs.... It works the same as a dust... and I add it to say ashes that I put in the coops for a dust box... especially in the winter if the birds cannot get out to dust. And I have used it direct on them as a dusting powder instead of a commercial brand if they have lice.
DE is VERY IRRITATING to any soft moist tissue... don't breathe it as it will iritate your nose and throat and eyes if you get in a "cloud" of it. But it does the job without "chemicals" if used properly. Some people feel that it is not good to use. The vet did some fecal samples on some cows that were wormy, fed DE and then did some again. That is the ONLY thing we changed.... fecals came back nearly 100% clean in a month and the cows looked 200% better just by getting them "wormed". Sold me on it. I did it after another small "hobby " farmer swore by it. We were using the same vet, and he mentioned it, so I tried it. Now I wouldn't do without it.
 
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CLSranch

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I have been feeding DE in feed for years. We get our feed custom made.... we run a cow calf operation, and so get our feed by the ton delivered bulk. The best way to incorporate DE in a small operation is to add to the loose mineral/salt mix... or in a sweet feed. Our custom mix has about 100-150 lbs per TON.... very miniscule in the scheme of things.
Use like a TSP mixed in a 2 qt scoop of feed once or twice a week... or a pinch daily....
The same with our chicken feed...I have some purebred show birds, had a free range laying flock and also, I raise broilers (CCX) that I get from a couple commercial poultry houses when they come and get the birds.... I get the left over "culls" that are usually the small ones..... sometimes get 10, sometimes get 100 or more; about every 8 weeks or so if they leave any behind. Don't do them in the coldest weather because they come out of a climate temp controlled house and cannot take the cold shock.... So I also get a 16% layer feed delivered bulk.... 2 tons at a time..... and feed it to the layers and the ccx. I have the DE added to the feed when it is being made... I feed pellets so they don't waste it like a finer ground mash feed.
The DE actually is "rough enough" in the gut tract that it will puncture the soft bodies of worms/larvae and they will die and be expelled. It also does the same in the manure... as the larvae hatch from the eggs.... It works the same as a dust... and I add it to say ahses that I put in the coops for a dust box... especially in the winter if the birds cannot get out to dust. And I have used it direct on them as a dusting powder instead of a commercial brand if they have lice.
DE is VERY IRRITATING to any soft moist tissue... don't breathe it as it will iritate your nose and throat and eyes if you get in a "cloud" of it. But it does the job without "chemicals" if used properly. Some people feel that it is not good to use. The vet did some fecal samples on some cows that were wormy, fed DE and then did some again. That is the ONLY thing we changed.... fecals came back nearly 100% clean in a month and the cows looked 200% better just by getting them "wormed". Sold me on it. I did it after another small "hobby " farmer swore by it. We were using the same vet, and he mentioned it, so I tried it. Now I wouldn't do without it.
Thanks for the info farmerjan
 
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