How dependent are we?

[FarmerChick]

thechickcrew
you hit the nail on the head....land can produce so much on so little. But ya have to want to do the work..HAHA

I chatted with a few people at the gym and they were complaining about high produce prices.....I said, you have a yard?, yea they said, I said grow your own.....what a shocked look I got..HA HA

People spend money to mow and maintain georgeous perfect yards.....and might starve if they go into hard times...but they will keep that yard nice.....LOL....go figure? I would rip up the yard and feed myself before I went down in flames..HA HA

 

[FarmerChick]

riase pheasant to hunt, and I hunt.
case closed.

***And Ticks I bet they are delish!!

 

[Hiedi]

Before we get too romantic over the self-sufficent life- there is a reason why people moved to the city (and looks like the return to city migration may happen.) It is EASIER.
Without an outside job or already having enough good land debt free, making your own food is hard work. It also depends on your ability to work everyday for the rest of your life- no retirement ever.
People wore themselves out in the "good ol" days. Farmers were not the plump specimens you can see now. Without mechanization, you become a beast of burden yourself. And you suffered good an bad years- hunger on a farm was not unknown. Death from mistakes in judgement was not unknown.
It is one thing to grow your own food knowing that if you have a crop failure, you can go to the store. It's another to know that this may mean desperate hard times.

But it sure would make some better political decisions if people were taught what food is and that people are not utterly protected from nature as they like to think.

That is a really good point.

Posted by FarmerChick
Some people have it in them to slaughter....some people don't.....but I bet many of those who "couldn't do it" when faced with a situation of food or no food, would slaughter in a heartbeat...LOL----just look at those people on the Survivor show...they snag a bird and eat it up and grimace while doing it but they sure do it..LOL

You are probably right about that; but I would be more likely to hunt for small game like a rabbit or squirrel, than to kill one of my own animals for food; but that is just me. I have this weakness when it comes to animals, and I seem to get way too attached. In a survival situation, that could change; I suppose.

 

[Beekissed]

Before we get too romantic over the self-sufficent life- there is a reason why people moved to the city (and looks like the return to city migration may happen.) It is EASIER.

And more expensive.
And more unhealthy.
And more stressful.
And the only migration I see is away from the cities, not towards them. Hence all the posts about city folks moving to the country and wanting to change it to be more like the city.

Yes, the American farmer went through some tough times, but they survived and would have thrived if the next generation hadn't been so anxious to "get away" from the farm. Why? To a new and prosperous way of life? No hard work? Towards a retirement they didn't live to spend? To toss away their heritage for an easy buck? Some farming families held on and still have their land (now so desirable for housing developments for the encroaching city dwellers). Thank God some farmers had the fortitude to hold on! Where would all the people in the city get food if they hadn't?

You could even say that city dweller's penchant for easy living and food in a package killed the family farm, as it caused a demand for quick, substandard foods that could only be provided by a highly mechanized agribiz farm.

Self-sustaining lifestyles are only "romantic" to folks who have never done it. To the people who have, it is not hard work, its just work. People "wore themselves out" doing honest labor in the fresh air, eating fresh food and enjoying a close communion with nature as God intended it. Is that any worse than slowly dying from inactivity, polluted air and food loaded with chemicals of every kind?

No retirement, you say? They had the land. Like money in the bank. Sell it or leave it to the next generation, but they had their own kind of retirement. The people and generations who "couldn't wait to get away" were the short-sighted ones who now do not have the land. Land is the soundest investment there is. They sure aren't making any more of it, so its a simple matter of supply and demand.

I don't know where, or when, it came to be but somehow "work" became a dirty word and something to be avoided at all costs. It may be hard to people who have to pay to get exercise and live a sedentary life, otherwise. To the people who do this silly thing called "work", that the more enlightened people in the city have most cleverly sidestepped, it is just something we do. It doesn't feel bad and it gives us a sense of accomplishment that enables us to skip thousands spent on a therapist trying to find meaning in our lives. As an added benefit, it feeds our families and others'. Imagine that!

Before we get too romantic over the ease of city life, lets take a moment to remember it is an ease you would not be able to enjoy if all farmers thought "work" was a dirty word!

 

[enjoy the ride]

I was just reading today a story about how Lyndon Johnson was elected to the US Senate- he was popular as the man responsible for bringing electricity to rural places,
The story explained why this was such a big deal as the author felt that modern people would not understand how hard life was without electricity, especially for women.
It described women and children spending 3-4 hours everyday just hauling water- either from a creek (which you did not build closed to because of the danger of floods) or out of well- just getting the bucket up from a 50 well was at the limit of a woman's strength and she had to do this at least a dozen times a day. Then one whole day was spent boiling and beating clothes in fire heated cauldrons- the next day was spent ironing with fire heated 6 lb irons, three of them in series as they cooled fast - all day in summer too where the heat was just about unbareable. Then bread day- all day even in summer baking bread because getting a wood oven hot enough took hours just to start. Wood stoves could not be left unattended- no themostat to regulate heat- a wood stove kept the whole kitchen hot all day long because to bake meant that it had to be stoked for hours to keep the heat high enough. Most days the stove had to be fed constantly to cook and clean. And without refridgeration, produce had to be canned almost immediately before it spoiled- so weeks again of firing up the wood stove in the middle of summer.
I can remember my Mom telling me about Monday being wash day, Tueday being ironing day, Saturday was bread baking day- I don't remember about the other days but this was every single week without vacation. And they lived in San Francisco.
Luckily almost no one in the US has to work that hard anymore- but the author pointed out the people wore themselves out by 35 or 40 doing this before electricity was available. Simple physically destroyed their bodies. City life at that time was was not a piece of cake either- just easier than farm life. Still harder than most modern people would find acceptable.
Made me bless the electrical pump that delivers water to me even if I do have to maintain the system myself- and the fridge that allows me not to have to get food daily, and the washing machine...............

 

[FarmerChick]

but remember it can't all be lumped into one statement or such.

alot of farm land was sold out cause the farmer sent little Johnny to college and he graduated with a career....when the farmer died little Johnny was not a farmer, hence a person might sell the land. Why not? It is a natural progression in life.

I am close to being land poor. My taxes on 120 acres (and being zoned agricultural don't get me much of a break at all) ---those taxes are OUCH!

When old and can't work, land is not retirement. Land can be a burden. Many old farmers are land poor just from property taxes and such.

So again there are flip sides to everything.

 

[ticks]

riase pheasant to hunt, and I hunt.
case closed.

***And Ticks I bet they are delish!!

umm yes they are! But not as good as a wild grouse.

 

[miss_thenorth]

Even the most independent person is extremely dependent. The majority of us are where we are b/c of a choice that we made. My family is living the life we live b/c of choices my dh and I made. Had we not made this choice, and many others pertaining to our life, we would not be living in the country with chickens, eggs, garden, hunting fishing and doing alot of things ourselves.

If we lived in town, that would have been a choice we made, and that would entail shopping at grocery stores for our meat and veggies.

Like I said, even the most independent person is still extremely dependent. So you provide all your own meat and veggies. You still need the grocery store to supply you with staples. You still need to be dependent on utility companies for your heat, hydro, water, telephone etc.

We are ALL vulnerable, whether we are living the "self sufficient" lifestyle, or living in an apartment in a highrise in Toronto. So you live on a farm and have animals--can you grow all your own feed for your animals? You hunt. Do you make your bullets and shotgun shells yourself? How about the gun?

There are ppl who don't have much of a choice about where they live. And, some people prefer to live in towns, cities and the like. Some ppls jobs require they live in towns. I seriously don't think we should be judging ppl on their choices, or criticizing them just b/c their choices aren't the same as ours, or thinking its sad b/c they have not killed an animal. Bottom line is, while we may be disagree with how others are living, we really shouldn't snub our noses at them either for their choices. I'm sure they have a very important role in society too.

I think expecting everyone to be able to kill their own food is a little extreme. Not everyone is up to it, which is great, b/c that is what makes everyone different, and we need to embrace that. If everyone were to live off the land and be "self sufficient", then you can kiss your internet, TV, telephone, hydro and gas, natural and fossil fuel--good bye. We "need" ( as in dependence ) these city ppl to provide these things for us.


However, what I do find sad is the fact that alot of kids, and even adults (who live in cities) have no real concept of where their food comes from. Everything is de-personalized, and it shouldn't be so.

If the world were to cease to function as we know it --and we did have to go back to grassroots living, I don't think the population would suffer. We are a very adaptable species. We have adapted to how we are living now, I have absolute confidence that if the need arose, ppl would be able to learn how to do it all over again. Not to mention that they would have history (and ppl like us)as a teacher.

I don't think we have strayed, we have evolved and adapted. Each and everyone of us is vulnerable and dependent to an extent. Like it or not.





An old native American saying--Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in their moccasins.



(disclaimer: not meant to offend)

 

[Beekissed]

I seriously don't think we should be judging ppl on their choices, or criticizing them just b/c their choices aren't the same as ours, or thinking its sad b/c they have not killed an animal. Bottom line is, while we may be disagree with how others are living, we really shouldn't snub our noses at them either for their choices. I'm sure they have a very important role in society too.

I don't think anyone was criticizing anyone about their choices, really. Just expressing an amazement about the phenomenon and having a general discussion. And I really wasn't snubbing my nose at anyone, either, here. I'm truly sorry if you took it this way, as it wasn't meant in that vein. I don't really expect everyone to be the same, at all. Just a discussion about a subject that I have thought quite a bit about. I think everyone has an important role in society and I don't think anything I expressed belittled those roles in any way. If you took it this way, I am sorry and I will attempt to be more clear in my expression so as not to cause further confusion.

 

[miss_thenorth]

I seriously don't think we should be judging ppl on their choices, or criticizing them just b/c their choices aren't the same as ours, or thinking its sad b/c they have not killed an animal. Bottom line is, while we may be disagree with how others are living, we really shouldn't snub our noses at them either for their choices. I'm sure they have a very important role in society too.

I don't think anyone was criticizing anyone about their choices, really. Just expressing an amazement about the phenomenon and having a general discussion. And I really wasn't snubbing my nose at anyone, either, here. I'm truly sorry if you took it this way, as it wasn't meant in that vein. I don't really expect everyone to be the same, at all. Just a discussion about a subject that I have thought quite a bit about. I think everyone has an important role in society and I don't think anything I expressed belittled those roles in any way. If you took it this way, I am sorry and I will attempt to be more clear in my expression so as not to cause further confusion.

I too, apologize, as my disclaimer said, I did not mean to offend. I too just wanted to add to the discussion. the way "we" choose to live is only one way, but not the only way. There is a place in society for all types, and "we" need those others too. I just don't think society as a whole has strayed, just because they chose the city life, and have never killed an animal, that's all.