How do a person's political views relate to self sufficiency?

[farmerlor]

It does look like a contradiction to me to support a political party with policies that create dependency at the same time you are trying for self-sufficiency. Can't wrap my brain around that.

Are we talking about the conservatives who want to keep us dependent upon big businesses and China to fulfill our needs all the while passing legislation that kills off the little farmer who wants to be self-sufficient? Then yes, that is hard to understand. As for me, I'm willing to work and pay taxes so that people in need can eat and if that means that a few freeloaders get on the wagon as well, .....well, it's not as big a chunk of my taxes as that which goes to corporate welfare.

 

[Big Daddy]

Republican, also known as the conservative party. Nowadays they are almost 2 parties though. Their values include. Small federal govt, little or no taxes, strong christian values although others are allowed to practice as they choose. no govt social safety nets. (safety nets to be supplied by church or family), unlimited weapons of choice to a certain limit, personal ownership of tanks would probably be looked down on. Almost forgot a key issue, strong belief in controlling a womans reproductive rights to protect the rights of unborn fetuses.

Democrats, also known as progressives or liberals. Large federal govt with a lot of oversight protection and controls to protect the general public. Progressive taxing where those with little pay little and those with a lot pay a lot to keep the country going. Strong belief that religion and politics don't mix and that money collected through taxes should not be used to promote religion. Guns should be legal but controlled since they are dangerous when improperly used. Strong belief in womans right to choose whether or not to carry an unwanted fetus to birth.

There are additional parties, but none that really make a difference at this point. I would like to see a 3rd party. The 2 primary parties are beginning to look an awful lot alike. They're both lapdogs for big corporations. They vote for whatever benefits their contributors vs their constituents. The libertarians will probably become the 3rd party.

Those are the basics. Tried to state them without being biased. As for how a liberal fits in to self sufficiency. Self sufficiency includes a number of things that lean towards the liberal beliefs. Wind power, solar power, organic foods, trying to make a minimal impact on nature, MEN magazine was started in the 60's by a bunch of liberal hippies. So you see liberals really do fit in. We just aren't saving for doomsday because of a lack of faith in our govt. Instead we are looking for more conservative and better ways to do things.

 

[inchworm]

In a very, very broad sense the conservatives tend to be all about big business. So selling precious farmland to mega-business for production line farming or feedlots presents no ethical problem for that group. Destroying national parklands or watching endangered animals disappear so that more oil can be found is a good thing to conservatives. And again, this is a very broad generalization. You'll find many people on each side of the aisle who will sell their souls to watch a baby seal get clubbed so that we can drill for another five gallons of oil to put money in someone's pocket.
For me, a dyed in the wool liberal-life long democrat and pagan, self-sufficiency is about protecting the land, protecting the small farmer and protecting my neighbors. I want more education, more economic sense and more environmental sense. I want LESS government interference in my life-the government has no say in when or who anyone marries, or when we choose to breed or where we choose to worship.

I would classify myself as a conservative and toatlly disagree with all the above. We really need to stop labeling each other. I'm not pro-big business. I basicaly want the government to leave me alone.

Inchy

 

[Ldychef2k]

For me, the best way to answer this is to state my own position and not comment on someone else's. So, that's what I am going to do.

I decided to begin a more self-sufficient lifestyle because I am conservative.

Just a few weeks, actually, after January 20, I realized that my conservative values were in far greater peril than I had anticipated. I knew it was going to be hard to live under a radically liberal administration, but the firestorm of destructive changes and financial missteps those first few months was a HUGE wakeup call.

I looked at my lifestyle and my income and I saw changes which affected me personally being made in our government, including taxation in several areas, fees which were taxes in disguise, and punitive fines for such things as not having health insurance, etc. I saw money being spent "like a drunken sailor" and debt being incurred that I felt was a threat to our nation's solvency. And I saw the government taking over private industry and dictating the day-to-day business decisions of corporations. This is obviously the very definition of socialism, and I felt the strong desire to set up my life in such a way as to lessen the personal economic impact of that destructive system.

I decided to work towards as complete a self-sufficient lifestyle as possible, with the ultimate goal being the lowest livable income, and thus the lowest possible taxation. Instead of being chained to my computer for hours on end, searching for paying work and focusing on the dollars, I decided work toward living on only as many dollars as it took to provide the barest basics for myself, not paying into a system of governance which I deem a danger to my way of life.

I sold much of what I owned, including collections, household goods, furniture and clothing, in order to pay off all debt but my house payment, and then set up my job so that I only earn what I absolutely need, and not a penny more. Eventually, I will have my house paid off and will have transitioned off the grid entirely.

I did ALL of this because I intend to remain as free of government intervention in my life as I can possibly be. That is what conservatism says: Leave me alone, Big Government. Get out of my way and let me succeed. Obviously, liberalism cannot allow personal success.

This thread is a minefield. It is important to keep the discussion to generalities and not make it personal. Again, I am simply explaining my values as they pertain to the question. I will not comment on anyone else's personal political philosophy. I hope that seems a wise course to others as well.

 

[me&thegals]

Hmmm.... as I get older, I don't see so many differences between people. Right and left often want the same things, but see the means to get there differently. When I started homeschooling, I thought we would meet a lot of homeschoolers who would be classified as on the right (religious and conservative, distrustful of government and popular culture). Instead, I found a lot of people on the left (liberal, anti-religion, and distrustful of government and popular culture). Sometimes I think the whole political spectrum is really a circle where liberals blend into moderates which blend into conservatives which blend into libertarians which blend into liberals.

I think it would help if people thought a bit more independently. The problems arise when people start hurling out catch phrases coined by the media of both sides. Catch phrases promote close-mindedness and prevent people from really listening.

Inchy

Such an incredibly insightful post! I especially agree with the first 2 sentences. We as humans want the same basic things, but we hold onto certain of our rights more dearly than others. While my desire for environmental health might classify me as liberal, another's desire for economic health might classify him/her as conservative. We probably both care about both, but the intensity of our desire puts us in a category.

I think it's just human to need to classify things. We like to label and box things, otherwise life is so complex that we have a hard time wrapping our brains around it.

But, humans, their beliefs, life experience and political views are more difficult to classify. I really agree with your description of "blending."

One thing I love about life is its constant surprises, and I'm often surprised with the political views of people when I start out thinking that I can guess what they will be.

 

[ScottSD]

All below in my humble and honest opinion.

Respectively.....

This must have spawned off of what I said in the now dead thread.

Like I said in that thread, typically liberals or secular progressives want MORE intrusion and control of your life and want the sharing the wealth of the wealth with those that are less wealthy. This is displayed in a number of ways, one of which is in the extreme taxing of the wealthy.

I also cannot wrap my head around how someone can say they want to be self sufficient, but still support programs that diminish the great American desire of being self sufficient by providing for you through social programs.

If you don't believe that is what happening in this country right now, it only takes a little reading to see that is the case.

Basically, how can someone claim to be self sufficient and also want the government to provide for them?

Again, this is my opinion and I respect yours.

Debates can be done in respectful ways without getting personal.

 

[me&thegals]

Basically, how can someone claim to be self sufficient and also want the government to provide for them?

I thought I had addressed that in my response to WZ's post. I want to be SELF sufficient but I want help out there for OTHERS. I recognize that I have a charmed life, but I also recognize that not everyone else has all the good luck I have had. I always think of that saying, "There, but for the grace of God, go I."

Then there's that other saying "There's nothing sure in life but death and taxes." We will be paying taxes no matter what. It's all just an argument over where our taxes go: Roads, public parks, unemployment benefits, defense, schooling...

Personally, I would like more of my tax $ to go towards developing "green" economy in America. It could create really good, smart, well-paying jobs, could address the issue of jobs going overseas, it would help me be more self sufficient if I could get affordable solar and other power. I'd like my gov't be involved in "forcing" some of our sectors to go green. Rather than propping up the old car models, let's get as far as Europe and get really super efficient vehicles out there, and affordable.

As far as reading about "what is happening in America right now," are you referring to the extension of unemployment benefits and health care coverage? Or are you referring to the healthcare debate? I'm not baiting here, just really not sure what events you are referring to...

Thanks for the respectful tone, everyone. I think this could be a really enlightening conversation if we all manage to stay calm.

 

[Wifezilla]

I know there will always be those who can't take care of themselves. I have a 20 year old son that fits in that category (severe autism). But taking so much of my money in taxes DECREASES my ability to care for him. Then having to practically beg to get gvmtn assistance I wouldn't need if they didn't tax me to death in the first place is really frustrating (well infuriating actually).

The problem is when you put gvmnt in charge of distributing the money, too much gets pisssed away. They are NOT an efficient "charity". Their accountability also sucks. If they were a private charity, they would be on every "Don't give these morons money" list you could find.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=topten.detail&listid=20

 

[FarmerChick]

Hmm...I can't get my head around the political to SS stretch just yet..LOL

so reserving the right to post later..HAHA

gotta think before I post on this one.

 

[me&thegals]

The problem is when you put gvmnt in charge of distributing the money, too much gets pisssed away. They are NOT an efficient "charity". Their accountability also sucks. If they were a private charity, they would be on every "Don't give these morons money" list you could find.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=topten.detail&listid=20

I would like to see smaller gov't, too. I don't actually know anybody who wants to see the gov't get bigger, but maybe someone will respond to that and prove me wrong.

I think we (people in general) disagree on WHERE the gov't should be. I think some things are so huge that only the gov't can do it: Public transit, for example. And some things are so volatile that only the gov't can do it: Defense, for example. And other things would be so hotly contested that only the gov't can do it: Siting national forests, for example.

I also agree with you that the gov't is hugely inefficient. I think that's partly a necessary evil of the system. I haven't read too much about it, but my understanding is that the Communists were tremendously efficient. Halting action every 2-4 years for elections is going to lead to inefficiency in the system, but the alternative? I shudder.