How many have actually made the change?

Icu4dzs

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I generally watch this thread topic because for all the things that we SS-er's do, it seems that some form of preparation for a change is part of our overarching psyche. Whether we are prepared for serious weather (like we had for the past two winters here in SDAK) or serious hurricanes such as they had on the east coast or a Katrina like scenario, the idea of living a lifestyle that will be the least affected by any such change always seems to be in the back of our minds. What is interesting is that this topic seems to have become less and less interesting to folks here than before. I know we have a lot of new folks who may have different ideas, but the change in interest seems to be rather profound in my opinion.

Given the economic situation of the globe at the moment (France and Germany are desperately attempting to "save" the Euro) many of the posts I have read over the past several years have been by folks who have either lost faith in our current system or have decided that they just don't like being THAT dependent on others to such an extent that if they were unable to work for whatever reason, their livlihood would NOT be decimated, particularly if they have children to feed, clothe and educate.

Additionally, there are a number of issues that make life more gratifying when undertaken by the SS type of personality. In prior posts, I have noticed that there are a significant number of us here who have been the product of parents who lived through the great depression. We were taught to take care of what we had, and not to be cavalier with things just because they make millions of them in China. I remember my father thinking that you should only have to buy something one time. It should work when you buy it and for ever thereafter, it should be carefully maintained so that it did work for the remainder of your life. We all know that this philosophy does NOT coincide with the industrial giants who think we should just use it for a brief period (maybe only once) and then throw it away and buy another one from them. Most of us here would probably be annoyed with that philosophy and that would cause many of us to avoid such a product, buy a much better made one (if that exists), make one ourselves or just go without it.

Considering that, I wonder how many folks here have actually made the change from the "city" to the "country" and/or have become "homesteaders" in either an urban environment or sub-urban environment? Why did you do it? Was it because it was "fun to do" or because it was "less expensive" or because it was a way to "stretch your resources" or was it a way to "utilize your creativity" in order to see whether or not you could adjust to a lower degree of technological life style (either because you might have to; or might just want to)?

Even more interesting is the question of how many have done it since 2008, knowing as we do that the economy can NOT sustain the behavior that we have seen in the past. We have seen the "Occupy___" as a statement by folks who for whatever reason think they are being "wronged" by all corporations or can't get a job fully realizing that there really is plenty of work in this country but they feel that they have graduated from some college which makes them "too good" to do labor that will bring in a paycheck but they actually have to use their back to get the work done? I have heard and seen plenty of places in our country who are hiring folks from other country's, (Mexico comes to mind) where the folks there WILL do hard work for a check and think they are making a huge salary compared with what they could have made in their own home.

In my town alone, there are a number of available jobs, but for some reason, we dont have the folks to fill them. Admittedly, some of them are jobs that require some form of specialized training or would need that but even in that situation, the employer is willing to provide that training to get a good, honest and dependable worker. We can't fill those jobs.

I live in an agricultural area. I live on my own farm. It isn't a big farm, but it certainly is the size of the average family farm of the early 20th century. I occasionally need some help with things and the problem is that the cost of materials is now so high that even if I do the work myself, it is nearly cost prohibitive. Getting some contractor to do work around here is nearly impossible because there is so much work to be had they feel they can be selective as to which jobs they will do and which ones they just won't bother to do.

The fact of the matter is that I made the big change earlier in life in my own mind and as I became closer to retirement with the Navy, I did a little more at each location to become more self-sufficient. The place I lived in Virginia was my last duty station where I built a 30 x 36 two story horse barn and riding ring. When I say I built it, I mean just that. On rare occasion, I had a friend come over and give me a hand with a few things like heavy lifting or bulky work and sometimes just repetetive work such as screwing plywood to the rafters for flooring. However, in each of these locations, I continued to feel the "pinch" of the need to be more and more self-sufficient so that if the economy did collapse like it did in 1929, the effect on my life would be minimized in terms of the basic necessities, food, shelter, clean water and some form of power.

Admittedly, power was the least necessary and the most rapidly vulnerable at the time because a generator that runs on gasoline will NOT run when the gasoline is either too hard to get or too precious to waste. Bringing water up out of the well with the generator was considered a priority but then if the gasoline became impossible to get, the well could have all the water in the world but none of it was coming up to see me.

The QUESTION then becomes, how many folks have actually "taken the plunge since 2008"? I have read a lot of posts where folks say they are "hoping to get some land next year" or words to that effect, but the issue of getting a piece of land is paled in comparison to "what do you do with it once you have it?" The cost of EVERYTHING you need to convert a piece of bare land to a working homestead, particularly in this current economic situation is staggering. Yes, some folks do know how to scavenge and make things out of stuff they get free or really cheap, but the question still is do we really know/understand what it takes to convert a piece of bare land to a functioning homestead? How do you get water, food, shelter, and the things attendant to them there when changing from a "city life" to a subsistence style of living somewhere remote from the usual location of "civilization"?

I can say from my own perspective that I got a nice place that had all kinds of good buildings on it, and it is fenced in places, etc. but the amount of work to keep it working properly and adequately maintained (because of many years of neglect) and to make advances in self-sufficiency have been astronomical in cost. Admittedly, I moved to an area considered by the majority of folks to be "really remote" where the cost of living is presumed to be "lower". Unfortunately, the cost of goods and services is much higher because of the remote nature of my world. Fortunately, my resources have been sufficient to meet the demand because I have a "marketable" skill which provides me with a cash flow. Otherwise, I would never have been able to do what I have done to this farm. It is just too costly.

In one string of posts, folks liked the idea of a "commune" but rapidly found out that they had absolutely NO desire to live in such an environment, either because of their refusal to compromise their independence or their preference to NOT have to deal with other people primarily caused by the inability of folks to work together for a common goal. As long as the idea of a "community" that was planned stayed "virtual" folks thought it was a cute idea and liked to "play along". When they thought (even for a moment) that such a planned experience would be a real issue, they immediately put all kinds of "road-blocks" in that made it impossible to actually do, similar to "herding cats", particulary if they would have been required to make a serious investment of their own resources in order to a) create the place and b) operate it. Even looking at it like being part of a corporation as such was completely unpleasant for many of them and the reactions to such an idea were quite interesting.

The question is that we Americans, have for the longest time, had the mindset of independence at the most basic level that we have left our families in order to be "on our own" and as such, our families have become so fragmented as to me nearly non-existent. We have become so involved in our own desires that we have lost sight of that idea of "cooperating with our neighbors" in order to have a functioning community. Fortunately, out here on the high prairie, much of that "neighbor" type of behavior still exists but it is beginning to erode as the generation that is addicted to what I call "ELECTRONIC NARCOTICS" becomes larger and gathers more age; (notice I did NOT say "grows up because that does NOT appear to be happening.) Folks no longer belong to social organizations or contribute to the activities of their town/neighborhood for a variety of reasons, many of which are because they don't want to miss the big game on TV or something similarly "individual" in nature that provides more entertainment with less effort.

We are living in a pivotal time in history. Many folks have lived in pivotal times and the changes they saw are no different than the ones we are probably going to see. I think the difference here is that they saw changes where humanity increased their knowledge and abilities, and we are going to see changes where people are going to lose their "independence and autonomy" primarily because they can not adapt to losing the lifestyle that gives them everything they want, exactly as they want it, whenever they want it, be it day or night; what I call "The Burger King Mentality".

Current trends in marketing are realizing that today's "me-only-generation" are doing most of their business transactions at NIGHT and much of that is on the internet. We have to be at work all day when most businesses are open so the only time folks can patronize businesses is "after hours". This trend is making a sweeping change in how folks live now. They work all day, and stay up/out all night; coming to work tired and hungover in a lot of cases. Look at how many "single parent" "families" we have now. Women want children and no man, or men want a Mommie to take care of them so they can sit and watch TV instead of work when they come home from their demanding job on the computer at "work". No one has time for each other and the dissolution of marriage is much akin to owning and disposing of a butane lighter. It is hot at first but when the fuel is expended, you throw it away and get a new one!

We, SS-er's tend to live by the sun, sleep when it's dark and do business when we can, assuming we have the ability to do it. Making the change from the "city to the country" lifestyle is much more difficult and demanding that many can imagine and many just don't have the resources to do it. What will we, as a people, do to adapt to the changes that ARE coming to our country and the world if we continue to "make more people" but do not make more food, clothing, shelter and have/recycle the materials to do it?

Not only that, but the folks who have become dependent on society for their entire existence (and I am referring to those who either work for the gubbmint or who derive their entire life-style by taking free money, etc. from the national treasury without putting out any effort to re-supply that money at all) The frightening issue is that the folks who "work for the gubbmit" make the decisions as to who gets money from the gubbmit without making any contribution to the gubbmit and who seem to be able to afford all manner of vices (drugs, tobacco, alcohol, etc) just the same. I don't get that. WE pay taxes so low wage earners in the gubbmit can make decisions to spend our tax money on folks who do nothing to help support our country. I just don't get that. This is the real question we have to ask ourselves because at the rate the money of the national treasury is being spent, there won't be a treasury for very much longer. There will only be a national debt and someone is going to want to collect that debt and then what will all those folks who are dependent on the free money going to do with out that flow of free money? My guess is they will rampage and steal what they can get. Not a pretty picture if you ask me. (digression ends here)

So, I ask you all, how many of you have made this fundamental change in the way you think, and live so that any major change in society will have minimal impact on your ability to live, and support your family?

You probably got tired of reading this so if you did stick it out to the end, good on ya! As Benjamin Franklin said so eloquently, "If we all do not hang together, we will assuredly all hang separately." I for one intend to do what I can to preserve what we have because if we don't, it will assuredly disappear before our very eyes and that includes our freedom!

Trim sends
1808_images.jpeg

//BT//
 

FarmerChick

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my walk into SS was for my love of horses.
grew up in Jersey parents had no money to board a horse for me so I took riding lessons a bit.

When I grew up, got a job my only want was a horse. I worked, saved and bought one and boarded for many years.
Then parents retired to NC. NC had way cheaper land than PA where we were last living.

So I cashed in stocks and bought land near where they bought a house on a lake.
I got my 5 acres and then cashed in more stocks and bought a 3 bed doublewide home. Have been in it since.

Bought hay for my horse from the man I am married to now...so HE and his family were the farm and SS type people. We raised horses, started a farm biz, raised meat goats, had over 400 chickens for egg sales, I started soaps, many acres of crops for sales, hay sales....etc WE DID that for many years.


So SS for me was many years ago following my passion for owning horses.

Now it is a way of life and it mainly to me is fresh eating by my own hand (meat and veg) and mainly about saving money doing it myself.

Lucky for me my parents were frugal types. They had money but they believed the way you kept above the troubles was never to spend it all. bank for that rainy day and they are so right.


guess that explains most of my journey in to SS
 

Joel_BC

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Trim, I haven't been aware of a specific philosophy here at SS... seemed more like an inclination of thinking: toward greater self-reliance and acquisition of knowledge and skills to make it possible. And these inclinations, knowledge, skills are taking various forms in city, suburb, or countryside.

I'm not sure there's a threshold of "substantial commitment". Seems like it's all a leaning, preference.

Has there been an actual statement of an outlook, or philosophy here at SS? If so, please provide a link. I'd like to read it.

The self-reliant inclination has been my own since youth. There are a number of sites on the web that interest me, from this standpoint.

My story is that I began to make an actuality out of my interests and dreams quite a number of years ago. There might have been a "chronic condition" of life in the contemporary world that I wasn't comfortable with, but there was no acute condition and no catastrophe that prompted my commitment. Once on a piece of land, my wife and I planned new buildings and modifications to existing ones, enlarged garden areas, fenced them, planted for food and beauty. We've kept animals at times, and gone without them during stretches when our cash-earning life, or need to travel frequently out of the area (the two being often related), made it hard to keep them. We know we can do it either way.

How you play out your intentions on land will have a lot to do with what your region is like (climate, terrain, social, and cultural factors).

By the way, a comment on a couple of details in what you had to say, from a supply-and-demand standpoint: You may find that the cost of building materials may drop significantly if the economy worsens. And you may find that skilled help also becomes more available in your locality then, too.
 

Marianne

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I made the change in '06...I think. Location, anyway. Like FarmerChick, I've always had dirt in my veins. I wanted/needed more dirt around me, more nature sounds instead of radios booming, more quiet, etc.

I have always been a DIY person and have found new levels of SS in the past few years.

Did fear of politics/religion/economy/anything else prompt me on my journey? No. Nor is it what drives me to continue to explore new things. That's just my basic nature. Oh, and the fact that we aren't rich. :D But it seems like we have more now!
 

dfr1973

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Trim, you cover a LOT of ground in your post. I'll tackle the (implied) question about buying "bare" land within a year, because I fit very neatly into that category.

When I was a kid, I would tell my grandpa I wanted to take over his farm in central BFE, Missouri. He used to laugh at that because I was being raised in the city. Nowadays, my aunt had the old farmhouse and it has more memories for her. In the early 90s, my ex-husband and I bought 5 acres in east Texas ... I loved it, but he hated it and moved me back to Ft Wayne, Indiana over the winter of 94-95. There are other reason he's an ex, but that was a part of it in retrospect.

Skip to present day, where we live in town next to a city park, a college campus, and a section 8 housing complex. We are stuck in this town until hubby's army contract is up in approximately a year, but we are already looking at properties where hubby has family (NE Florida). While truly bare land is not ideal, what I am hoping to find is a piece of land where the MH has been removed for two related reasons: price and vandalism. Two of the properties we looked at over our christmas vacation the MHs had the distinct pattern of shotgun pellets in them, and one looked like someone had driven a large truck through the middle. Several more properties on my watchlist have been updated to reflect recent vandalism to the structures. One was missing part of the roof from storm damage (also had a large tree down next to the porch), and the windows had what looked like algae on them. On another we could see mildew on the drywall through the windows. If we buy at any time this year, we still can't move down there permanently until hubby goes on terminal leave next winter, and from what I have observed unoccupied properties get vandalized even when they are not foreclosures ... this is in addition to potential storm damage and complications due to humidity.

Not all sellers in the market have accepted the reality of the bubble bursting - but a property that has been damaged by nature or people is significantly less, and we are certainly not getting rich on army E-4 pay and VA disability. Add to this our desire to be able to buy the land outright - no mortgage - and that has us limited to either properties in severe disrepair or one where the MH has been taken off for whatever reason. Properties that still have functional structures have much higher price tags (and the potential to become damaged on top of that).

Will it take a lot of work? Oh yeah! But hubby and I have both participated in building camps from scratch in the combat zones, so neither of us have illusions about that part. We are both tired of all the NOISE around us here in the city. Right now city water is tearing up a patch of pavement two doors down on the corner. Any day we expect the campus to tear down the house next door to us, just as they have torn down three houses across the street from us and put in a parking lot. Come spring and summer, there will be events in the city park behind us, and people will probably try to hook up to our water spigot again this year, simply because we next to a city park. :rolleyes:
 

snapshot

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We are within about 2 weeks of moving 15 or so miles out of the small town we are in -- into a fixer upper. We will have help from my brother in law--financially and equipment wise to clear land. One of the more exciting reasons for me is to find a Church (out there). To me a Church means a community of like minded folks. And out where we will be, they are farmers. I have to wait as we can't afford gas to be checking out Churches 15 or 20 miles away right now. I am looking forward to building relationships and friendships while working to become a bit self sufficient. Brother in law will be a source of help and my dh helps him out on a daily basis at his ranch.

I know that we can't get to SS our first year out but we will be making the most out of the time we have.
 

cheepo

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we moved from a very city lifestyle to countryish area...Just last year...
for me It hasn't been a totally consious...persuite...but it is amazing how so many past desires..seem to fit now...
eg... years...ago I was working on a book "You Can Make it" alternatives to store bought ...
and now...I am totally in the none buy you can make.. lifestyle...
My hubby and son...thought I had lost my mind when I said I wanted chickens...but now can see and taste how wonderfull this
lifestyle is...
we do still have to go back to the city for my hubbys work...
And I completely don't feel conected...I focus on thriftstores..but it is the traffic...and High cost comercialism that just blows my mind...
Is just insane...how none conected to fiscal waste it all seems...
we dread going and just can't wait to get home...
I am blessed with a kind loving supportive husband...but was a single struggling mom for years...there were many skills I developed...that I never would change...
and just 4 the record...my hubby is a doctor...I could be living any lifestyle...but this is the chosen life for us..and couldn't be more happier..
 

hqueen13

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My, Trim, this is a can of worms!!

My own back story is rather interesting. I grew up in suburbia, from the age of 3 in the same house. But, as FarmerChick and Marianne comment, the dirt is just in my blood. My mother is fairly earthy, she does a lot of hand crafts, and can rewire her own light. She's always had a focus of thriftyness, but not excessively so as while growing up we didn't really need to be. She did always wash the ziplock bags until they had holes on them though!
I loved to play in the dirt as a kid, and was always outside. I loved horses, even though I had never been around them. I got into art, and they were almost always the focus of my drawings and sketches.

The most interesting memory though is that the age of 5 in kindergarten, we were asked what we wanted to be when we grew up. Frankly, I think this is a terrible thing to ask a kid that age, what do they know, really? But ask they did, and I answered 'farmer.' At the time, I didn't know what a 'horse trainer' was, and I just knew that horses lived on farms, and so I figured I wanted to be a farmer. I always remembered that because I was a bit embarrassed to say it, and the other kids thought it was weird, of course. Years later, I recognized that I wanted to be involved with horses, and so 'farmer' probably wasn't as accurate as I thought.

But then we ended up here, and live around the horses, which is great, but I also found out about chickens. They're an absolute delight! And I've always had a love for animals, and so other things began to creep into my wish list... like cashmere goats, and alpacas (and the obligatory llama(s)!), and then we learned more about growing your own food, and why it is important to be sustainable, and now I realize that I never could have been more right at the age of 5 to say that I wanted to be a farmer.

I am worried about a SHTF scenario, but my biggest fear is that it will happen before we're 'away' from everything. We are TOO close to everything, and have too few resources here right now to be able to really support ourselves. I just pray that we can get ourselves organized financially quickly enough to get out of here before something catastrophic happens. And I do believe that the best scenario is several people either sharing land, or living close enough together to share resources. It wouldn't be easy, but I have no illusions about the challenges of living with others. I think it really takes a community to be successful, and frankly, I don't want to have to labor alone. Even the two of us would be really hard work to really run a farm the way we really want to, not to mention that neither of us are super handy people. He's not very interested in it, and I just don't have the skills yet. So I would hope that there is someone around that has more skills and knowhow that can teach us.
 

Joel_BC

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Icu4dzs said:
The QUESTION then becomes, how many folks have actually "taken the plunge since 2008"? I have read a lot of posts where folks say they are "hoping to get some land next year" or words to that effect, but the issue of getting a piece of land is paled in comparison to "what do you do with it once you have it?" The cost of EVERYTHING you need to convert a piece of bare land to a working homestead, particularly in this current economic situation is staggering. Yes, some folks do know how to scavenge and make things out of stuff they get free or really cheap, but the question still is do we really know/understand what it takes to convert a piece of bare land to a functioning homestead? How do you get water, food, shelter, and the things attendant to them there when changing from a "city life" to a subsistence style of living somewhere remote from the usual location of "civilization"?

So, I ask you all, how many of you have made this fundamental change in the way you think, and live so that any major change in society will have minimal impact on your ability to live, and support your family?
I believe the two portions of Trim's long post that I've isolated, above, contain his basic question, Beekissed. (Of course, we should let him speak for himself.)

But it was a pretty long post... interesting for sure... easy to get lost in it.
 
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