Mutually Exclusive Concepts (Ranty Questions)

[Wifezilla]

If you believe in self sufficiency, how can you also believe in wealth re-distribution? To me these are mutually exclusive concepts.

If you are spending time, effort, money, etc... learning to provide for yourself and your family, why should you be forced to have your efforts redirected to someone who took vacations, bought expensive cars and bought two houses and is now broke?

Why do people believe that government is the way to charity? I don't want or need government in my assistance to the less fortunate. All they do is divert money that could go to someone in need for their vacations, jets, dinner parties, furs, jewelry, limos, mistresses, etc...

There are always going to be people who, through no fault of their own, can't take care of themselves. (My youngest son is such a person.) Why am I mean and evil for differentiating between someone has severe autism, cerebral palsy, cystic fibrosis, MD, etc... and someone who has had 3 kids by 3 different dads by the age of 20 and now expects food stamps, section 8, medicaid, and WIC? Is it really hard to see that one is a victim or circumstance and one created their own problems?

Are people not familiar with the term "enabling"???

How many people would not need to sign up for government assistance if they weren't getting so much taken away from them in the form of taxes and fees in the fist place?

What happened to "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."? Now it is "have your elected official demand fish magically appear out of thin air" or "Have one man fish while 10 others stand around and wait to steal his catch".

 

[farmerlor]

Not everyone who needs help is someone who had three different kids by three different fathers by the age of 20. Some of them are people who have a kid with CP who because of that can't work outside the home.
My grandma, a deeply religious woman, taught me that my responsibility in this world was to see to the needs of my family first, my neighbor next and my community next. She said a good person should not be able to sleep warm and well fed if his neighbor is hungry and cold. I'm sorry, but I believe that. If I have something that someone needs I will try to help them because next time it could be me that needs help.

 

[noobiechickenlady]

But that, farmerlor, is part of what WZ is talking about.

YOU helping your neighbor who is truely in need, in the best way YOU can (and others in your neighborhood, your churches & food pantries), instead of having the big G come in, take what you've got, made, saved, scrimped & grown & giving it to somebody 8 blocks over who has never heard your voice, doesn't know your name, could care less if you had to work overtime to get what you got. Someone who got themselves in over their head by making seriously foolish choices, like buying a house with a $4,000 a month note when they only make $4,500 a month.

You KNOW your neighbors, you know when they are truely doing without (if you are on friendly terms with them ) and they know what you went through to get what you had. Heck, they would probably come over & mow your grass or bring you something to eat when the shoe is on the other foot.

There is a human connection in actual charitable work. WZ & I, and many others here who don't believe in redistribution, simply don't want the government to step into something that actually worked & gave that human connection and muck it up. Sorry to speak for you WZ, but I've read enough from you to understand that we see eye to eye on this issue.

Its not big G's job. Its MINE.

 

[Blackbird]

Would you like a hug..?

If so;

 

[Wifezilla]

Not everyone who needs help is someone who had three different kids by three different fathers by the age of 20. Some of them are people who have a kid with CP who because of that can't work outside the home.

I thought my point on that was pretty clear. Guess not.

YOU helping your neighbor who is truely in need, in the best way YOU can (and others in your neighborhood, your churches & food pantries), instead of having the big G come in, take what you've got, made, saved, scrimped & grown & giving it to somebody 8 blocks over who has never heard your voice, doesn't know your name, could care less if you had to work overtime to get what you got. Someone who got themselves in over their head by making seriously foolish choices, like buying a house with a $4,000 a month note when they only make $4,500 a month.

You KNOW your neighbors, you know when they are truely doing without (if you are on friendly terms with them lol ) and they know what you went through to get what you had. Heck, they would probably come over & mow your grass or bring you something to eat when the shoe is on the other foot.

There is a human connection in actual charitable work. WZ & I, and many others here who don't believe in redistribution, simply don't want the government to step into something that actually worked & gave that human connection and muck it up. Sorry to speak for you WZ, but I've read enough from you to understand that we see eye to eye on this issue.

Its not big G's job. Its MINE.

Wow...remind me to PM you next time I need to articulate this concept...LOL

EXACTLY what I was getting at.

Would you like a hug..?

Hugs are always good when voluntarily given

 

[farmerlor]

Ah, but see, not everyone had my grandmother teach them that concept. And not everyone is ready to help their neighbors or their neighbors are too proud to ask for help. It's much easier to go to the big government office and get anonymous help from some official type person than to have to constantly feel in debt to the guy next door even though your neighbor pays the taxes that helped you get the things you needed from that official.
A long time ago I booted my abusive ex-husband to street and I needed help from that government official for six whole months. I'm so grateful that it was there for me and I sure am glad that there wasn't anyone out there judging whether I deserved that help or not since I was a 20 year old single mother who had no neighbors or family that I could confide in.

 

[MorelCabin]

I totally agree with the help your neighbor strategy. The problem today is definitely lack of really understanding that someone else had to give up something to give that mom with three kids the check she gets every month. Many of them see it as a paycheck....I kid you not. A paycheck for doing nothing. But if they had the chance to be a little more accountable for it (like by knowing and respecting the giver) they would feel much more inclined to get out there and do something to help themselves AND someone else. Right now they see it as free money,and id I don't take advantage of it someone else will.

 

[Wifezilla]

A long time ago I booted my abusive ex-husband to street and I needed help from that government official for six whole months. I'm so grateful that it was there for me and I sure am glad that there wasn't anyone out there judging whether I deserved that help or not since I was a 20 year old single mother who had no neighbors or family that I could confide in.

Lutheran family services, catholic charities, and several other places already do this very thing without wasting a majority of their budget in the process.

 

[farmerlor]

A long time ago I booted my abusive ex-husband to street and I needed help from that government official for six whole months. I'm so grateful that it was there for me and I sure am glad that there wasn't anyone out there judging whether I deserved that help or not since I was a 20 year old single mother who had no neighbors or family that I could confide in.

Lutheran family services, catholic charities, and several other places already do this very thing without wasting a majority of their budget in the process.

Many of us are uncomfortable with church offered services especially since most of those services seem to come with a little sermon or kindly offers of prayer which is fine except that so often the underlying criticism is that we're sinners who, had we stayed "on the path of God" would not have found ourselves in this predicament.
I'm sorry but the "personal responsibility" people have sort of morphed into the "every man for himself" people or as dh Big Daddy says "I got mine, sucks to be you" people. That's why government needs to continue to at least have some control over the charitable giving process.

 

[farmerlor]

AND I've known MANY religious organizations that do indeed waste a majority of their contributions on incredibly fancy digs for the pastor, nice cars, mega-churches and even some who've had millions of dollars just disappear. I don't know of any organization whether it's a Forbes 500 company, government run facility or religious sanctuary that's without some kind of graft or corruption.