need advice on saving electricity

[elijahboy]

i didnt want to hijack the other electricity thread so i figured is start a new one
i didnt know there was so many variables to saving electricity

In the coming months I will be renovating a 1985 mobile home.

things that i think might make a difference and i might change out

25 year old hot water heater (not broke and still humming) of course i need a newer one but again its not broke

metal siding thinking about changing to vinyl if you touch the metal siding in the heat of the day you cant keep your hand still for more than 30 seconds so i know it drawing heat into the walls

metal roof which i want to keep cause i can collect rain water to water the garden instead of running the well pump daily or every other day

vinyl undersiding which i would like to replace with brick and add vents and a big shop fan because the soil is mostly a sandy type and it seems to hold heat until about 2pm and then releases it till about 9pm

cheap trailer windows want to switch out to a better quality but cant understand the benefits of a single hung as opposed to double hung and there are 11 windows to replace

the home is like 26x50 or so 3 bedrooms but im going to rearrange it to create 4 bedrooms

there are 3 kids and myself

there is only one shade tree thats about 20 ft from the mobile home so it only does a good job about 2 hours a day

the sun comes up from the back and goes down in the front and there is a huge sliding glass door that the sun blares into every morning which i was told is the worst door to have so thinking about switching out to a single glass grid door or french doors

wow thats alot of crap to do maybe i will just stay in my brick home NOT

any info would be greatly appreciated

 

[meriruka]

My first response is "Shut off the main on the panel." That'll do it for sure.

Now I'll quit gooofing off & try to be actually helpful......

Roof: I'd trade my metal roof for shingles in a heartbeat. Provided the shingles are in good shape, why would rainwater not work in the garden just as well as water off a metal one?

Siding: Agree with the vinyl siding if only because you could put better insulating materials under the vinyl when you install it.

Windows: I'd want double hung just so I could open the things to get a better breeze or to get out of the house faster. Replacement windows will seal the house better if installed correctly & Low-E glass & Argon gas will also help & doesn't add much more to cost.

Water heater: They make water heaters now that don't have a tank & heat up water on demand, not heating a whole tankfull 24/7. I don't have one myself, but after the dishes are done & I take my shower, I shut it off until the next day. May no be practical with 3 kids though.

Regular heating: My main (oil furnace) heats the kitchen, bathroom & living room. All other rooms have an electric wall heater that I only turn on if I go in there (dining room, library, the bedrooms)

You could get heavy drapes for you big glass doors, wrap your water heater with one of those "heater jackets" as well as wrap your hot water pipes. Seal door with the felt strips or rubber bottom thingies, put those foam outlet covers behind the wall plates, plant more trees around the house. All reletively cheap things to do that will help and most you can do yourself.

 

[elijahboy]

thank you for all your info

the heating will actually be a wood burning fireplace that i am going to have inspected thoroughly before use

im already in the habit of turning off all vents to bedrooms

 

[xpc]

meriruka beat me to the punch and gave good thoughts on the stuff I missed, but already had this all written so here it is:

i didnt want to hijack the other electricity thread so i figured is start a new one
i didnt know there was so many variables to saving electricity

In the coming months I will be renovating a 1985 mobile home.

things that i think might make a difference and i might change out

25 year old hot water heater (not broke and still humming) of course i need a newer one but again its not broke

as mentioned before a tankless is about 3 times the cost of a new standard 30 gallon electric heater, you didn't mention the fuel source or the size of the breaker panel (you need at least 3 more 20 amp breakers) but would still recommend a standard unit over a tankless because your install may cost $500 above the $600 for the tankless unit. it will long fail before paying for itself.

metal siding thinking about changing to vinyl if you touch the metal siding in the heat of the day you cant keep your hand still for more than 30 seconds so i know it drawing heat into the walls

Vinyl siding is cheap and the scrap price for the metal siding if aluminum can pay a good chunk of it - take a refrigerator magnet to it and sees if it sticks (a bad thing).

metal roof which i want to keep cause i can collect rain water to water the garden instead of running the well pump daily or every other day

This is a good idea but only if its an after market, if it is a near flat roof shingles will not work (3/12 pitch or more).

vinyl undersiding which i would like to replace with brick and add vents and a big shop fan because the soil is mostly a sandy type and it seems to hold heat until about 2pm and then releases it till about 9pm

If you are talking about the skirting? bricking it will be just for fun or looks, it may keep some of the heat out but your best bet is to make sure your under floor is insulated very well R30 would be the ticket and cost much less than the brick.

cheap trailer windows want to switch out to a better quality but cant understand the benefits of a single hung as opposed to double hung and there are 11 windows to replace

If you plan on new siding then new construction windows would be the way to go, either way $150 per is the going rate not including installation, trim, flashing, insulation and the sorts.

the home is like 26x50 or so 3 bedrooms but im going to rearrange it to create 4 bedrooms

Removing a wall must be checked to make sure it is not load bearing - don't know how true this is in a mobile but a few jack studs and header wouldn't hurt.

there are 3 kids and myself

Are any of them orphans? there is a tax credit.

there is only one shade tree thats about 20 ft from the mobile home so it only does a good job about 2 hours a day

There are many fast growing trees up to 4 foot a year, check your nursery for both kinds. Pines may grow faster but deciduous gives you winter sun heat.

the sun comes up from the back and goes down in the front and there is a huge sliding glass door that the sun blares into every morning which i was told is the worst door to have so thinking about switching out to a single glass grid door or french doors

Probably not a cheap option and may need the large patio door for moving larger things in or out. Glue heavy cloth to some vertical blinds.

wow thats alot of crap to do maybe i will just stay in my brick home NOT

I did not know you could say "crap" as I was censored once for typing "fart" and was replaced with wind. < ha it still did it - I typed f*a*r*t

 

[elijahboy]

Vinyl siding is cheap and the scrap price for the metal siding if aluminum can pay a good chunk of it - take a refrigerator magnet to it and sees if it sticks (a bad thing).

i do know its a pain to have a screwdriver near the walls as the walls sucks the screwdriver to the trailer like a vaccuum


This is a good idea but only if its an after market, if it is a near flat roof shingles will not work (3/12 pitch or more).

the home originally had shingles and it was near flat and when that rotted the previous owner just layed corrugated metal (guess thats what its called) over the shingles but my intentions are to rip the entire roof off install a new roof with pitched roof/ceilings because i cant stand the 7ft ceiling.


If you are talking about the skirting? bricking it will be just for fun or looks, it may keep some of the heat out but your best bet is to make sure your under floor is insulated very well R30 would be the ticket and cost much less than the brick.

yeah maybe for looks but figured since i was putting that much money into this might as well have it look more like a house but the guy doing it said it would also help support the frame of the home so i guess that doesnt hold true



Removing a wall must be checked to make sure it is not load bearing - don't know how true this is in a mobile but a few jack studs and header wouldn't hurt.

in this house the load bearing wall runs through the center and the area im referring to will be actually getting an additional wall i will turn a 20 ft area with 3 walls into a 20 ft area with 4 walls but before that is done the entire house will be leveled/releveled

Are any of them orphans? there is a tax credit.


if so they would have went back along time ago

I did not know you could say "crap" as I was censored once for typing "wind" and was replaced with wind. < ha it still did it - I typed f*a*r*t

i said farts and it didnt trigger anything the other day

 

[elijahboy]

Vinyl siding is cheap and the scrap price for the metal siding if aluminum can pay a good chunk of it - take a refrigerator magnet to it and sees if it sticks (a bad thing).

why is that a bad thing

 

[~gd]

Vinyl siding is cheap and the scrap price for the metal siding if aluminum can pay a good chunk of it - take a refrigerator magnet to it and sees if it sticks (a bad thing).

why is that a bad thing

It means it is steel which has very little scrap value compared to aluminum.

 

[patandchickens]

Doublehung vs singlehung window is only a matter of whether you can open it from the top down as well as from the bottom up (that's doublehung) or wehther the top panel is fixed and the only way to open the window is to open the bottom part upwards (that's single-hung)

The main two virtues of doublehung windows IMO are that a) you can open the top to get a little better venting of hot stale ceiling air, and b) if you have a good roof overhang you can leave them open at the top during not-too-severe storms, whereas single hung windows would have to be closed. OTOH when we had our windows all replaced 7 years ago, the double hung ones were stupidly-much more expensive than single hung. We only put double-hung windows on the East side, and in what was then our main bedroom. I do not regret this decision at all.

(The other major window options are side-sliding windows -- generally to be avoided if at all possible, except for unusual circumstances or if price is really a big issue -- or casement windows, the kind that are hinged on the side and crank outwards. Casement windows can offer you 2x the open area as any other kind of window, which is nice -- however they are apt to get blown off in storm winds so it depends on your setting whether they're a smart move or not.)

I think probably your single biggest "bang for buck" step would be to shade all your windows, especially the sliding door -- awnings or a covered porch or things like that. IN ADDITION use insulating drapes or other means to keep what heat enters the windowglass from transferring so badly into the house.

Second biggest "bang for buck" step would be a couple good powerful window fans, if you do not already have them, so that the moment the outdoor air is cool enough (use a thermometer, 'feel' can be decieving) you can crank the fans to start sucking cool outdoor air through the whole house.

Third biggest "bang for your buck" step would be very heavy insulation, like at least R30, in both the floor and the ceiling.

The other things you mention are good too, but my impression is that their beneift compared to their cost is not as impressive as the above fairly-simple steps.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat

 

[Jaxom]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and assume that your hot water tank is electric? Since you're asking on how to save on electricity. I agree with XPC, on demand hotwater heaters are still too "new" to recover your investment. But there are things you can do with standard tanks. First off, what condition is the one you have in? If it's fairly descent, here's something my grand parents did. When they had a new well dug on thier property (65 miles north of Greenbay Wisconsin), my grandfather disconnected the old tank from the electric, but still had the water ran to it, then from there to the new hotwater tank. What this did was created a holding tank where the rather cold water being pumped into the well could then come up to room temp. Much more efficent then trying to heat water that was fresh out of the ground.

If you don't have the space to do that. No matter how efficent of a tank you get, get a blanket to wrap it in! Then set the temp to 110F and forget about it. (Temp is what I've seen recommended on the DIY channel as being safe and energy efficent).

Something everyone should be aware of. Skip the CFL bulbs! If ya break one you need a hazmat team (pratcially) to clean up the mess, and technically if one dies your not sappose to toss that in the trash because of the mercury content in them. Go straigh to LED's. The last even longer and are more efficent then the CFL's.

You mentioned a skirt underneath. First check to make sure ya have proper insulation underneath. Then I would suggest using treated lumber and frame a skirt. Insulate this and then use a brick vaneer to make it look nice. Don't forget to leave your self an access so if you need to get to plumbing underneath you can do so. You can also lay some plastic down as a vapor barrior too. Just lay that ontop of the gravel underneath.

I love the idea of a steel roof. Not only do they last longer, but if you are interested in going solar in the future, there's companies out there that make a flexible adhesive backed solar panels ment to fit between the steel panel ridges. I seen this on Planet Green not to long ago and there's a article in Mother Earth News as well explaining the project.

I've two suggestions about the sun hitting the east and west sides. The first it to take advantage of this for winter heating. Install darker colored cermic or stone tiles. The tiles will become a thermal mass and soak up the heat. Of course this isn't great in the summer when it's cooling you want, so I'd suggest getting some awnings you can raise and lower. That way you can control the amount of sun is hitting the tiles inside. If the door itself is older or not double paned, I'd replace it with a better one.

There is however an inexpensive quick fix. Home Depot carries a mylar film you can glue to the inside of the glass. It not only reflects sunlight in the summer, it also gives your window a few extra R value points in the winter as well. This stuff comes in mirrored, smoke and semi transparent.

 

[elijahboy]

appreciate the info

the windows in the home are so thin they are like the glass on elcheapo picture frames they are double hung but alot of them have missing glass

plus after changing the siding to vinyl then the windows would just make it look ridiculous with the brown metal and cracking seals

Doublehung vs singlehung window is only a matter of whether you can open it from the top down as well as from the bottom up (that's doublehung) or wehther the top panel is fixed and the only way to open the window is to open the bottom part upwards (that's single-hung)

The main two virtues of doublehung windows IMO are that a) you can open the top to get a little better venting of hot stale ceiling air, and b) if you have a good roof overhang you can leave them open at the top during not-too-severe storms, whereas single hung windows would have to be closed. OTOH when we had our windows all replaced 7 years ago, the double hung ones were stupidly-much more expensive than single hung. We only put double-hung windows on the East side, and in what was then our main bedroom. I do not regret this decision at all.

(The other major window options are side-sliding windows -- generally to be avoided if at all possible, except for unusual circumstances or if price is really a big issue -- or casement windows, the kind that are hinged on the side and crank outwards. Casement windows can offer you 2x the open area as any other kind of window, which is nice -- however they are apt to get blown off in storm winds so it depends on your setting whether they're a smart move or not.)

I think probably your single biggest "bang for buck" step would be to shade all your windows, especially the sliding door -- awnings or a covered porch or things like that. IN ADDITION use insulating drapes or other means to keep what heat enters the windowglass from transferring so badly into the house.

Second biggest "bang for buck" step would be a couple good powerful window fans, if you do not already have them, so that the moment the outdoor air is cool enough (use a thermometer, 'feel' can be decieving) you can crank the fans to start sucking cool outdoor air through the whole house.

Third biggest "bang for your buck" step would be very heavy insulation, like at least R30, in both the floor and the ceiling.

The other things you mention are good too, but my impression is that their beneift compared to their cost is not as impressive as the above fairly-simple steps.

Good luck, have fun,

Pat