Those with children? Having some major issues!!!

[Bettacreek]

Ok, so, at one point in time, we found four dead chickens in a bucket. Both kids were there, the youngest caught the blame. I had thought that he was trying to gather them and was a little too rough on them. Later, a duckling had a broken leg, he caught the blame again and was glued to my hip after he was released from the corner. Well, next day, child was still glued to my hip, yet the oldest comes in from outside telling me that the youngest killed a turkey... Obviously, it was not the youngest, as he had literally been my shadow all day. SO, the oldest finally admitted to killing the four chicks, hurting the duckling and this turkey. Fast forward, yesterday we found a dead chicken. BOTH kids said that the other birds must have killed it. My youngest will take the blame for crap he didn't even do, and there were no marks on the bird, nothing, so I just didn't know. NOW, today, the kids were heading outside, I was coming out of the bathroom to head outside and within literally ten seconds of the kids being outside, the oldest is screaming and crying that a bird was bleeding. The youngest proceeded to tell me that the oldest had hit it with a broken tricycle wheel (ran it over last week, had all of it in the garbage outside, but apparantly they pulled this wheel out). Anyways, I'm for one at a complete loss. I just don't know what to do with this crap. I've spanked his butt, I've put him in time out (hardcore time out, where he has to keep his nose to the wall), I've drilled him about why he'd hurt the birds, I've really drilled it into his head that he cannot be doing that kind of thing, I've tried to teach them how to be gentle with the birds, etc. They do VERY well with them when they're with me, but I can't honestly keep them with me 100% of the time. I can't drag both kids inside with me each and every time I have to pee (especially with a UTI). They're only unsupervised for seconds up to 1-2 minutes at a time, but seconds is all they need. My sister was going on about how crazy it was and how he's GOT to stop (no ****) because "you know what happens to kids who kill animals at an early age". Basically, she's trying to tell me that my kid is going to turn into a serial killer or something. Now George is on that bandwagon, saying "it's just not normal". First of all, it freaks me out to think that any child of mine would turn out to be a bad person. Second of all, I just don't want my kids killing birds, for obvious, immediate reasons. I mean, I don't truely believe he'll turn into some serial killer, because he cries when they get hurt, etc. BUT, really, I'm at a loss as to how to keep him from killing birds, short of locking birds or kids up in their respective houses. Right now, the oldest is in the corner, crying because he doesn't want my youngest to throw him out the window, because he'll die... Like seriously, what the F*CK?! He's killing birds and talking about being thrown out a damn window? Should I make some kind of appointment for him with a specialist or what?! I'm just at wits end. I don't know where he's getting this crazy ass idea of his brother throwing him out the window, and I don't know what to do about him killing birds!

 

[Mr.Andersson]

Well, I had a friend who loved killing cats, on the farm, in strange and demented ways, and He is Fine. He turned out good. I'm sorry that's all I have right now.

 

[Beekissed]

How old is this boy? When did all this start and anything happen before that....contact with new people or friends, summer camp, watching anything different on the telly, etc. ? What does he say as to why he does these things? (I'm sure you've asked him over and over)

We need more info! Boys get up to all sorts of things and sometimes they will inadvertently hurt an animal or sibling...sometimes just out of curiosity of what happens when they do it or from something they've seen on TV and thinking the person/animal will rebound like they do in LA LA land..but this sounds a little beyond any curiosity, for sure.

 

[Wannabefree]

Sounds like he has an issue with death. Kills the birds and cries, then has issue with dying himself......anxiety? Maybe food allergy related?(I had major issues with anxiety with my allergy) Maybe stress related? How is his relationship with his dad, or your boyfriend. When he does that, he gets attention...some kids just like attention no matter whether it is negative or positive. You are too close to the situation, too much emotion mixed into your flesh and blood being capable for whatever reason of such things. Is he gonna be a serial killer? HIGHLY doubt it, he cries, and feels remorse, psychopaths do not know how to function in that area, that's what makes them psychopaths. Tell the sister to chill out and quit freaking out over it. He's a little boy, and sounds like he could use a visit or two to a doctor and/or therapist to figure this out.

 

[Bettacreek]

He's four now, five at the end of November. It just recently started, with the arrival of the cornish x. Well, the four chicks were the week before, so it was about two or three weeks ago that this started. As for reasoning, he has different excuses. This time, his story was that he was trying to kill a bug. Previously, he has said that he wanted to sit on the couch and watch tv. It never made much sense before, but possibly it is his way of getting attention? Put in that perspective, I can see a better link, but before I thought he was talking cockamime garble. They have no contact with their "father", haven't seen him in two years, maybe even more (not sure if he saw them when they went to his sister's house two years ago). George is really good with them, they crawl all over him, sit on his lap to watch cartoons and all kinds of things. He plays ball with them and basically everything a dad is supposed to do. TV hasn't really changed any. They tend to watch the same shows, though they have started to watch American Colonies with me, but there hasn't been any killing on there that they've seen. I don't really watch many movies, quite literally, it's almost always cartoons on tv, unless George puts the races on the tv instead of on his computer, but that's again the only thing he'll watch.

As for anxiety, I had some issues with death as a kid. My earliest memories are actually of crying myself to sleep worrying about my parents dying. They had to actually change rooms between my sister and myself, so that I could be closer and "keep an eye" on them and make sure I could hear them snoring. So, there's a good chance my craziness has been passed onto my kids. I still don't understand how that all turns into killing stuff. I never killed anything as a kid myself. I didn't really start killing stuff until about three years ago. The kids have been involved with some of it... Mostly the butchering part. They've never actually watched me kill something, but have watched me butcher, and I've showed them what everything looks like. Mostly because I know that I had no idea about anatomy (besides the heart) until I went through nursing school. I want the boys to be well educated, and I believe that anatomy is pretty important. I don't believe that this has anything to do with them hurting them though, because they always say "when they get big, we can cook them up and eat them". I think they have the basic concept down that the birds have to grow out and all of that. They know that green tomatoes will turn into red tomatoes before we can eat them, and they know that you can plant seeds in the dirt and make food. They know that cows equal hamburgers, steak and milk. I don't honestly think that it's the lifestyle that's making him kill chickens. I remember as a kid, my sister had a duckling, and I vaguely remember that I was trying to make it sit (because I thought it was cuter when it sat) and broke it's leg. I was probably about Talon's age at the time.

 

[Beekissed]

Maybe a little therapy wouldn't go amiss...sometimes kids will tell a therapist things they won't tell their parents and it could be anxiety, fear or anger based. Until you find out and can get him some help a good electric poultry fence will go a long way towards keeping your chickens safe when kids are unsupervised. A good zap from an electric fence might make him think twice before trying to reach and kill the chickens to work out his issues.

 

[Wannabefree]

Sounds like he is just anxious about death, maybe even a little preoccupied with death, and little boys are perpetually curious. Girls will be curious without acting on it, boys seem to act now, think later. It sounds almost normal, just maybe a slight distortion of average kid stuff. Maybe he's trying to figure out how death looks, or happens, and if he can cause it, or stop it. If he feels he has a sense of control over death, he doesn't have to be afraid of it. Just a hunch. Kids can be so hard to read, because we lack the innocence they have. You have to see it from their level to figure out the possibilities of things going through their little heads. Maybe talk to him about death, and try to reassure him

 

[BarredBuff]

I would say he has issue with death, maybe he was "playing" with the chicks and killed them. Then sort of felt "in control" over it, and now kills the animals because it gives him a sense power. Then regrets because he knows he was wrong to do it, but is conflicted over it. I don't know for sure, just speculating ideas. I hope things get better for him and you, but I see it like Bee, electrifed netting would probably go a long way in keeping him away from them...

 

[Bettacreek]

Sounds like he is just anxious about death, maybe even a little preoccupied with death, and little boys are perpetually curious. Girls will be curious without acting on it, boys seem to act now, think later. It sounds almost normal, just maybe a slight distortion of average kid stuff. Maybe he's trying to figure out how death looks, or happens, and if he can cause it, or stop it. If he feels he has a sense of control over death, he doesn't have to be afraid of it. Just a hunch. Kids can be so hard to read, because we lack the innocence they have. You have to see it from their level to figure out the possibilities of things going through their little heads. Maybe talk to him about death, and try to reassure him

It's a possibility about the control thing. Though I think he believes that I can control the world. He's told me that I can fix dead birds. Today I was exasperated and asked him (rhetorically) what would it take to get him to stop killing birds... His response? "You can make me, all you have to do is say it". Now, I HAVE told him numerous times to stop hurting/killing the birds, and it hasn't worked, but jeez if he doesn't act like I can fix all/cure all.

 

[Team Chaos]

I think four is a little too young to be giving the killing any deep thought, so I wouldn't be thinking "serial killer" either. I'm curious to know- what his reaction when he sees the dead bodies and is asked what happened? I'm a hard arse about these things- we had a young visitor on our farm who was too rough with one of the birds and I didn't waste a lot of time asking him WHY he did it, but instead went after him that he had no right to kill MY bird. I made him look at the body and I told him how I had raised it from a chick and how special it was to me. Any time he wanted to cry for himself, I told him to dry up because I was the one who had my friend killed. He was not allowed unsupervised on the farm for a good long while- if I had to pee, tough luck, he was coming inside to wait. If I was scrubbing buckets and he wanted to run off, tough luck, you can scrub too. I figured that if he was young enough and careless enough to kill a bird, I couldn't trust him to stay off the equipment, stay out of the road etc. and I told him that repeatedly.
I feel like the core issue here is trust. Four is not too young to start understanding the concept of accountability. You are trusted and given freedom on the farm- you broke that trust by killing our birds. You are expected to be honest and I will take your word, but you lied about who killed the birds and proven that you cannot be trusted to be honest. I'd lay it out there and tell him that you believe in your heart that he is a good boy, but he is making bad choices and everyone is going to do their best to help him, but he needs to be the one changing the most. At four, there are all sorts of cool books and stories about honor... I'd make it a pretty big theme for a while. I can understand the urge to find out what's behind it, but don't get so focused on the whys of the past that you neglect to shape the future!
* I want to add that this reply was written with love, respect and optimism. I usually shy away from anything too deep on message boards because I am worried I'll come off offensively and hurt someone that needed comfort. So if nothing I said is helpful, please disregard it and just consider this a virtual hug.