Your thought please.

[miss_thenorth]

http://www.notmilk.com/kradjian.html

Over the Christmas holidays, Hubby and I were talking to my folks, who usually are very supportive of what we are trying to accomplish. when our discussion of our newly acquired sheep came up and what we want to do with them, (mainly milk them for raw milk, )my mom thought it was a horrible idea, that it should be pasteruized. they pasteurized their milk from their own cow when she was growing up, and she thought we were puttin our kids in jeopardy. This is my mom who has never disagreed with anything we have been doing thus far. so, to oblige her, and also to educate my self, I found this.

Now, disclaimer. I am not a milk drinker at all, my kids are not big milk drinkers, but we do enjoy yogurt and cheese and of course ice cream. and cream for coffee. I have heard and read things about milk not being good for humans, but have never come across anythiing like what Dr Kradjian has written about.

So, can we open into a discussion about your thoughts on this article. I have googled this doctor, and only found reference to him regarding his stand on milk and that it is a cancer promoter.

 

[Blackbird]

I haven't read through it all yet but it is pretty interesting.

I would agree that the store-bought types of milk are unsuitable, but I think that raw milk (I'm going with goat) has far more benefits than to cause me worry about cancer.

 

[miss_thenorth]

It is a very long read, but I found it interesting. While he talked specifially about cows milk, since it is the comst commonly consumed milk, he is also against raw milk consumption.

 

[sylvie]

This was really written by a doctor? The phrasing and word choices are odd for an educated professional.

 

[big brown horse]

Whew, just finished!

I went through a vegan phase in college. My good friend at the time was REALLY into it. She did tons of "research" (usually PETA driven research) and would always say things like: "Milk is just cow mucas" and "the only mammals that drink milk after infancy are humans" etc. (She didn't say anything about race back then.)

It seems to me that this info is from the early 1990's. IMO. And it is written by a member of PETA or just a staunch vegetarian. Not once did he mention organic milk...unless I missed it.

Anyhoo, the guy that died from eating a pint of ice cream each day? Well...HELLO!!!! That is a ton of sugar! (Notice he mentioned the man was also an otherwise healthy eating vegetarian too. Not saying that is bad, just saying this makes me think the author was a vegetarian as well.)

Summary: Dated material written by a biased individual. (And don't drink BGH laced milk.)

 

[ducks4you]

I don't buy it. I know that some people are lactose intolerant and cannot drink milk products. I also know that some people are allergic to milk and cannot drink milk products. I ALSO know that if you stop eating meat for too long, you lose the microbes in your digestive system that aid in digesting meat, and will NOT be able to eat meat again. (Maybe a doctor could intervene with that problem--don't know, though.)
I don't have time to do a search, but I DO know that anybody can post on the net and anybody can sign their name with M.D. at the end of it--especially those lucky ones that know how to italicize it!!!
Point your critics towards the closest lake. (You'll know what to say next. )

 

[miss_thenorth]

Right. On further searching, he appears to really be a dr emplyed at the hospital stated on the letter. With furhter searching, he is the former chief of that dept. and apparently, while no ties are found to peta (hopefully we are allowed to say that word here), other than peta had a campaign called "got pus!" on which they had a lawsuit against them which was dropped.

the thing that got me though are al his claims from medical studies etc. I'm not done researching though.

 

[miss_thenorth]

This was really written by a doctor? The phrasing and word choices are odd for an educated professional.

Agreed, his tone seems a little extreme. He apparently has a book published talking about the link between milk and breast cancer.

 

[patandchickens]

You can find micro-scale arguments for and against eating *any* particular food. In reality, it is quite possible for a food to have some benefits *and* some risks, so it is likely that sometimes BOTH sides are correct. However, I do not think that we are likely to know any meaningful Real Overall True Truth about it all, for *certain*, during our lifetimes or our childrens' lifetimes, if ever. Truth is a lot more complicated and elusive than it is often convenient to think

So, for whatever it's worth, my personal take on all these "is <particular food> good for you or bad for you" arguments is this:

If people have been eating that exact food (not industrially-altered or highly-processed-in-a-new-modern-way versions) for many generations, without evident harm, then I see no reason not to eat that food as long as you are not eating it in great excess.

Foods of more recent origin, like within the past several generations -- including those modified in relatively new ways -- have more of a question mark hovering over them, which is not to say you can't eat them if you want but it should be with the understanding there is less of a guarantee of harmlessness.

This is sadly too simple to be good magazine-article-headline material, but honestly, it makes sense to me

Following the above reasoning, I see nothing wrong with drinking milk in moderation. (I *love* milk, myself, fwiw). The only problem I personally see with drinking unpasteurized milk as opposed to pasteurized is that you want to have some reasonable assurance that there is nothing transmissible to humans, like TB or listeriosis in cows (have I got those correct? there's a couple things, anyhow. Dunno bout sheep or goats but I am sure the information exists). Personally I'd want the animal tested for those things periodically, but if you then want to drink raw milk I do not see it as being riskier than all sorts of other things that people take for granted as quite safe, like a pleasure-drive in the car

JMHO,

Pat

 

[FarmerDenise]

I didn't read all of this article yet. It is rather long. I think he has a point. But I don't believe in extremes of any sort. I think some humans can tolerate cows milk better than others.

Children who don't show any problems with their health are not going to be brought to the doctor.
My child had health issues, so I kept bringing her to the doctor. I found out that she did not tolerate cows milk. So I stopped giving it to her. I read Adelle Davis's book, I think the title was "Lets have healthy children", she also mentioned that cows milk was not for human babies. She said to use vitamin E to help with milk intolerance. I gave my DD yogurt, cottage cheese and other cheeses after some time and also added vitamin E. She was able to drink milk eventually, but we never really pushed it.

I breastfed my daughter until about 9 months of age. After that she stopped herself. During pregnancy I could not eat meat, beans, crucifers (broccoli, cabbage etc). I also stayed away from milk, because I just never cared that much for it (unless it came straight from the cow.) I ate eggs, fish and cheese. My DD is very intelligent.

I also don't drink much milk. I have it in my coffee and occasionally drink a glass of it. Whole milk only though. When I was a small child maybe 3 or 4, I got very sick to my stomach from milk and refused to drink it after that. My mother didn't push it. When I was 11, I visited my grandmother in the US and visited a neighboring farmer. I got to drink milk straight from the cow. Yum!!! I was able to drink milk from then on, but never really drank that much.

I think that milk is pushed too much. On the other hand I don't think drinking some milk is bad for everyone. I also think, raw milk is best. If you can have your own animals and get milk from them you know how clean you are and have a better chance of getting a superior product.

A lot of these studies are probably done based on milk available to the general public, not on milk from a very clean home raised animal where the farmer is concientious about keeping all dairy super clean, because they don't want to make their own family sick.

Even the studies on raw milk sound like they are based on raw milk from farmers who are not scrupulous about the hygine of their animals or the dairy product.

Most of us here are raising our own dairy animals, so we can have control over the hygine and what goes into producing the milk in the first place. We want the most natural product possible for our health and the health our animals and the land.

The one thing I am going to do to change my milk drinking habit, is to try even harder to locate a source for raw milk from a small producer. Hopefully a backyard herder