How fat is obese?

the world's people are getting digusting. I don't care if it is politically correct or not to say but man oh man fat is out there to the max. most people know they are fat. they just don't want to deal with it. food is horrible out there in the world now. chemical junk. the medical field is effected to the max with problems that obesity brings on that an otherwise lower weight person would not have (not all obviously, but increasingly this is killing the medical system)

bad situation all around.

be fat and all that goes with it or take the responsiblity for your health. best anyone can hope is that people open their eyes and see reality.

FarmerChick said:

the world's people are getting digusting. I don't care if it is politically correct or not to say but man oh man fat is out there to the max. most people know they are fat. they just don't want to deal with it. food is horrible out there in the world now. chemical junk. the medical field is effected to the max with problems that obesity brings on that an otherwise lower weight person would not have (not all obviously, but increasingly this is killing the medical system)

bad situation all around.

be fat and all that goes with it or take the responsiblity for your health. best anyone can hope is that people open their eyes and see reality.

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May one assume from this that you have never been overweight or poor? Sure, in an ideal world everyone would be a healthy weight, and eating (and feeding their family) healthy food. The ideal world however doesn't exist. Poor people, people who haven't the education to know what is healthy food, people who don't know how to (or even that they should) question the "experts" giving them questionable information about the right way to eat ... heck, even your average housewife with little interest in nutrition, but who just wants to feed the starving horde when they get home from school - these people are getting fat, and staying fat, because getting thin is really, really hard to do.
I am an example of that; I think it isn't hyperbole to say that I have never been at, or below my "ideal weight", not in 61 years (except as a newborn, when I was 5# ). And I am not poor, and I do have a very good, self learned, education on food and nutrition (because it interests me to know these things). But losing weight is hard, especially in view of the "accepted wisdom" about the best way to do it (which seldom works), and the push to consume vast amounts of junk food, which many people are poorly equipped to avoid (both the push to consume and the junk food itself)
"Seeing reality" would be a good thing. But what is reality? Is it what the doctors and nutritionists tell us - eat fewer calories and less fat, exercise more? Is it "avoid junk food" or "avoid sugar" or "starve yourself"? At present I am inclined to believe it is "reduce carbs" - the evidence in that direction seems pretty compelling to me, and is a path I have been leaning towards for a long time (but I really, really love fresh bread ... and pasta ... and potatoes ... <sigh> --- luckily I am NOT in love with sweet things, but that is another huge hurdle for people spoon fed sugar laden foods from their early childhood), but the mainstream hasn't embraced this idea yet, and many people who need the knowledge don't have it, and don't know to look for it.

Sorry about that - I am stepping down off the soapbox now

The numbers are more of a guideline. What's important is FAT. If you have excess fat, get rid of it if you can. Excess fat just has so many problems. Heart problems, excess estrogen, increased risk of blood sugar problems, etc, etc, etc.

If we (USA as a whole) are so overweight, we should also stop looking at "average" size as acceptable.

I'm size 8, 5'8", 145# My body composition is poor so I consider myself overweight/overfat. To be health/lean (still curvy) I'd need to lose 10 - 15 pounds or change my body composition to be the same size but well-muscled rather than fat. I'm lazy though - it's easier to eat less than to work out so I'll go for the losing weight.

Orchick

all I see is a list of excuses in your post and people not thinking for themselves. being a sheeple led to slaughter.

I am tired of no responisibility for what goes in your mouth. blaming experts and not bothering that people won't take the time to do a bit of personal research.
the excuse of time. no time to make healthy food. producing fat kids cause people are out of time and food from a box.

obviously I am not talking about 'all' people out there but there is a BIG MAJORITY of the obese are smart, educated and NOT taking responsiblity. they are not poor and ignorant. they have the time, brains, resources and more to help themselves. they are not taking responsibility.

''not all'' can figure it out of course, but let me tell ya, the blame game is pathetic out there in this world. Reality is step up and do what is right without a ton of excuses. people over come HUGE adversities in their lives. the weight issue is one that can't be blamed away all the time. If everyone fat is ignorant and poor, this nation and the world is screwed

FarmerChick said:

Orchick

all I see is a list of excuses in your post and people not thinking for themselves. being a sheeple led to slaughter.

I am tired of no responisibility for what goes in your mouth. blaming experts and not bothering that people won't take the time to do a bit of personal research.
the excuse of time. no time to make healthy food. producing fat kids cause people are out of time and food from a box.

Click to expand...

I was going to write, "If you have to ask... " but I haven't posted much around here lately and didn't want to offend. Yes, I think in general we make excuses. I'm really sick of people telling me I'm skinny. I am most certainly NOT skinny. I got back fat rolls to prove it. If we (as a fat nation) keep adjusting the average up, and keeping misleading ourselves to think that average is healthy or acceptable, the future is not bright.

My weight struggle has a lot to do with health problems and the medications that go with. But right NOW, I've been doing well without the medications for about 10 months. I lost 40 pounds that I had gained from the health problem and medication. The last 10 - 15 pounds are my own sheer laziness and lack of self-control.

I think the typical "muscle weighs more than fat" is a volume measure. I'm a pretty lean 165, but if people ask what I weigh, when I tell them, they don't believe I weigh that much because of how i carry my weight. I do have a layer of "insulation" here and there , but I am not, IMO overweight. I think the best measure of whether or not one has a weight issue is the way they do it on the weight loss shows, and that is by measuring body fat. Percentage of body fat is a better guide than BMI numbers, because they don't tell the whole story, there's no visual. When I am lower weight, below 150, I feel like crap, and have more issues with BP, blood sugar, etc. even though my "ideal weight" according to BMI and other "numbers charts" is 130-145. I also feel like crap if I get over 175, so I pretty much let my own body decide what my "ideal" weight range is. Some of the measuring tools for weight are just garbage, if used alone, truthfully.

I know that for the navy anything over 30% is obese in females 22% for males. But our calculator is based on average weight to height' with neck waist and hip circumferences. This is a good indicating system for large amounts of ppl being checked at once. Not so good for the individual. It doesn't take into account body type. So bmi calculators are not an ideal form of bmi measurement for a person but are good for a census of many ppl. At 75" tall I'm allowed 211 lbs of weight I look like a skeleton at 220. I clock in at 255lbs with the bmi neck and waist values I'm 25% body fat. But on the density study (float test) I'm 20%. So depending on the type of calculator or test you use you get different results. Each type of test has its own ppl range. Some for hundreds some for one person. The cheaper a bmi test is the broader the range. None take into account age that I've seen.

tortoise said:

FarmerChick said:

Orchick

all I see is a list of excuses in your post and people not thinking for themselves. being a sheeple led to slaughter.

I am tired of no responisibility for what goes in your mouth. blaming experts and not bothering that people won't take the time to do a bit of personal research.
the excuse of time. no time to make healthy food. producing fat kids cause people are out of time and food from a box.

Click to expand...

I was going to write, "If you have to ask... " but I haven't posted much around here lately and didn't want to offend. Yes, I think in general we make excuses. I'm really sick of people telling me I'm skinny. I am most certainly NOT skinny. I got back fat rolls to prove it. If we (as a fat nation) keep adjusting the average up, and keeping misleading ourselves to think that average is healthy or acceptable, the future is not bright.

My weight struggle has a lot to do with health problems and the medications that go with. But right NOW, I've been doing well without the medications for about 10 months. I lost 40 pounds that I had gained from the health problem and medication. The last 10 - 15 pounds are my own sheer laziness and lack of self-control.

Click to expand...

40 lost is wonderful Tortoise. Congrats! I bet you feel so much better with that gone.

I agree with you that this subject is touchy to alot of people. but seriously, fat is fat and most people know they are fat and don't do anything about it.

I think what gets me most of all, is the usual put off the issue situation. with fat and every other stinking subject and issue out there in the world the talk stinks. people need to act and so few do and I don't mind saying what I feel about these situations.

There was a program on tv several years ago where a number of families volunteered to go "back in time to the pioneer days" and live in very rural Montana like the settlers did. One of the families was from southern California, and the Dad became very concerned part way through the series about his rapid weight drop. It was explained to him when he saw a physician, that he had been overweight (and perhaps the term "obese" was even used, don't know--it was a long time ago) prior to joining the project but that he was now at a very healthy weight and was gaining muscle where he had previously had no tone. He didn't believe it.

His thought process has stuck with me ever since--people have radically changed their opinion on what is too fat.

When I was a kid, people who are "average" weight today would have certainly been considered obese. And I'm only in my 40s, so that means things have changed a LOT in the last 30-odd years.

I look at "weight" from a health perspective. If a person is carrying more weight than his/her bone structure and organs can effectively deal with, one becomes ill--simple fact. I know so many people who "need" physio, or hip replacement, or who have joint problems... people who are borderline diabetic, a friend who is rapidly declining to the point of being put on the kidney transplant list and heading for dialysis until that happens.

The simple fact is that obese is "too much weight" for the skeletal structure to carry efficiently. How the "number" comes about can be very arbitrary but there is a point for everyone where they are either too heavy or too light for optimum health. And some reasons for the imbalance are outside of the person's control, so using the blanket term "lazy" is not at all helpful in the conversation. If a person is unhealthy and cannot function, that needs to be addressed. We all come in different shapes and sizes, but big is big and will affect one's health eventually.