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[pinkfox]

thats awesome news...
around here if you even suggest a barter they look at you like you have 16 sets of eyes and are speeking dutch.

 

[KevsFarm]

Yeah, i think that mindset is true in alot of places, Pinkfox.I guess some people just can't get past," I only want cash for my time or product" which i can understand. After all you can't go down to your local electric utility and pay your bill in eggs, now can we ?....lol Or pay your mortgage with firewood..! But there are plenty of good situations out there in which bartering is very cool..Of course Uncle S_m doesn't like us doing that sort of stuff, because he don't get his share of the pie..But i figure he's sticking it to me good,in other area, so i got to get a little even... I'm always looking for new barter partners for whatever..If your growing, or producing something people need, you can always barter....

 

[Denim Deb]

I've tried to pay a few bills w/eggs, but they just laugh. :/

 

[Wallybear]

But, do you know how to make gun powder? And, if you do know how to make it, do you have access to sulfur and potassium nitrate? Or, if you know how to weld, do you know how to make your own welding rods?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point here, but isn't that sort of the whole point of "the end of the world as we know it" scenarios that people (not really me, btw) are planning for, though?

You simply CANNOT make those things yourself, realistically. Not while doing everything else necessary to survive, anyhow. And in many cases, not even if you had nothing else to do at all, because they just require too many complex-and-technically-difficult or not-found-locally materials. Or for gunpowder, while with sufficient time and experimentation and a fortuitous supply of the right stuff (remembering that episode of the old Star Trek series here ) you could arrive at some semblance of sorta-gunpowder, it ain't gonna be something you can expect to use effectively in a firearm, not even a black-powder rifle.

Thus, one would need to rely on more-basic technologies that CAN be done by oneself or one's immediate group; and/or work out arrangements with other people to trade goods and share services.

(BTW, the heck with welding rods, whatcha gonna use as a *power source* for welding. Except when using the term "welding" in the very very broadest possible sense so that it includes heating things up in a forge and then hammering on 'em; but a usefully-hot forge is not an "oh I will throw it together in my spare time" project either. Note that even plumbing [soldering] is on my normal-natural-disaster list NOT the "back to stone age" list... )

Pat

Completely disagree with you on this one. I can easily make flux using tree resin and sand to make welding rod from a coat hanger. I can then hook up 3 car batteries to weld anything I want. As for gun powder, you can easily substitute ingredients and there are plenty of recipes out there that work well. I have made red powder when learning and reloaded RIMFIRE .22 cartridges using strike anywhere matches.

It can be done if you are a resourceful person and have the drive to do things for yourself.

 

[Denim Deb]

Pat, my point in my reply about the gun powder and welding rods is that most people stock pile up on certain things, like ammo. But, once it's gone, what are you going to do? It's not something most people have addressed in their replies, and I just used them as an example. Something else I could use, for those that don't live near salt water, where will you get salt from if TSHTF and you run out? Just something for people to think about.

 

[Marianne]

Pat, my point in my reply about the gun powder and welding rods is that most people stock pile up on certain things, like ammo. But, once it's gone, what are you going to do? It's not something most people have addressed in their replies, and I just used them as an example. Something else I could use, for those that don't live near salt water, where will you get salt from if TSHTF and you run out? Just something for people to think about.

Out here, a lot of people bow hunt and trap too, so when the ammo is gone, they'll be breaking out the arrows...while I'm still waving my empty gun at 'em. There are salt mines in KS, but too far for me to walk to and I don't have or want a horse at this point.

I still don't think we'll see a total breakdown and disasterous situations. Every generation before us has thought that their's was the last. Nothing wrong w/ being prepared, having plans ready, etc, but I'm not going to worry about it. And I'll continue to plant a good size garden instead of buying ammo because food prices are on the rise. You can't put ketchup on bullets and eat 'em.

AND I'll continue to learn new skills. My SIL is going to teach me how to tan hides. Eeeek. But I want to learn how to do it.

 

[pinkfox]

bow hunting is actually one thing i REALY want to learn, i prefer the idea of an arrow to a bullet but im not realy confident of my aim in general...

mabe aim in general is a learnable skill? lol. (i have terrible aim after my head injury, i belive the software that translates information into acton was corrupetd and i cant find the backup file for my brain.)

 

[Icu4dzs]

We seem to have focused on a few of the skills that most of us hope and pray won't become necessary.
A few have made comments about those folks who think they will just intimidate or kill others who do have a garden and while they might just do it a few times, like the one poster said, it won't be long before someone takes a dislike to that behavior and makes a concerted effort to extinguish the behavior and the individuals who perpetrate it. Bullets go both ways.

In the ancient wisdom of a few of my "well trained" friends, it will be true that no one *(other than a really insane person) would ever enjoy killing another human being, and it will always make you sick and sad to have done it, but then it is still better to be sad and sick for a brief time than to be "room temperature".

In addition, after 20 years, no one will remember what gun you used or what bullets you used or how you did it. They will only remember who is still alive and who isn't. If you have run out of everything but the enemy, you are in combat.

The skills that we mention here (and the ones we need to concentrate on) are the ones that kept our ancestors alive because that was all there was. The difference is that we know why those things work and how to do them somewhat better. Those are the skills we need to remember and perpetuate. The marines can perpetuate the art of combat. We need to perpetuate gardening, animal husbandry, farming, fabric construction and assembly, etc. You have all mentioned these skills and they are the ones that are so important.

If you go to the internet (while we have the time) you can find a large number of technical drawings on a wide variety of farming and country life things from the universtiy of North Dakota. Everything from gates, and fences to slaughter house buildings, and bee hives. Copy those drawings and make a notebook of them. You probably don't need them now, but they are the skills and buildings and equipment you will need if we have to "devolve" into an earlier time.

As for worrying about the end times, I recommend "DON"T WORRY, BE HAPPY". If you are prepared, i.e. have food put away, enough to survive until the next harvest season, and you have shelter and what you need to stay healthy, you DON'T have to worry. In addition, just don't talk about it with everyone. If you garden, that is fine. The folks who would do evil can come get your garden but they should NOT be able to get your seeds and the food that you "put away" for yourself and family. Those things should be kept "PRIVATE".

That is the difference between us SS folks and the rest of them. We don't have to worry because we live this way all the time.
As I said in one of my posts, "The Amish probably won't notice anything ever happened" because that is the way they still live. There is wisdom to that. One poster mentioned that the degree to which a society has deteriorated is related to the number of luxuries that have become considered "necessities". Do we really need to txt msg ea othr al dy? (I probably got that all wrong but u no wht I mn.) (*isn't that Cognitive dissonance?)

Well, KevsFarm lives by the sea so he can get seafood more easily than we can out here in the midwest; but I can shoot a pheasant almost any day (if I had to). Of course, if everyone did that there would be no population of game left so even that has to be tempered.

By and large, Americans who live on or close to the land have a more realistic view and understanding of nature and HER workings.
It is for us to learn HER ways and to work in harmony with HER so we are good stewards of the gifts that The Supreme ARchitect of the Universe" has given us. Only by doing HIS will, can we truly be without worry and fear.

YMMV
//BT//
Trim sends

 

[patandchickens]

I think btw that a lot of handbooks from the 1920s-WWII (Depression era and the decade or so immediately prior) are particularly relevant to this sort of discussion, because most of the stuff that they tell ya about fixing/making/reconfiguring involves materials that would likely survive (for a few generations anyhow) anything that any of US would ALSO survive.

Obviously older books are also useful too, but tend not to make full use of the types of things that in this world we have a lot of lying around.

(Personally, I'd also like to know a whole lot more about how those in a similar climate but different continents have historically done things, but that is a lot harder to find books on)

Pat

 

[Neko-chan]

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