Coronavirus Concern Up

[tortoise]

 

[TexasLisa]

I posted this on FB a couple of days ago. I'd like you all to read, then take a moment to respond. Time to play Doctor, folks. As a physician, how would you respond????

When is it ok for a physician or care giver to cause harm to a patient? Is it acceptable when someone outside the medical profession insists that the caregiver perform an action which causes harm to the patient? Let's pretend for a moment that you are a doctor. Read the following TRUE case study, and please respond.

Patient A comes to your clinic for routine bloodwork. He is 95 years old. He has multiple diagnoses. Including type 2 Diabetes, and cardiac issues leading to pacemaker placement. He has frequent episodes of low blood pressure, and fainting. He was recently discharged from hospital and rehab, during which time, he had MULTIPLE negative covid tests. Per Janet Mill's protocol, Patient A is required to wear a face mask. While waiting for his blood work, he reports feeling dizzy. He has not had anything to eat, since he needed to be fasting for some of his bloodwork. His family attendant reports the dizziness, his blood sugar was tested, and found to be on the high side, but he was given a snack anyways. He was moved to a treatment room for further assessment. Oxygen Saturation rate was 88%. Standard treatment would involve placing patient on oxygen if he is not able to maintain O2 sats above 90% on room air. Family member asks if mask can be removed. Remember. This is a patient who is now demonstrating lack of oxygen. He is Covid negative, and he is in a private treatment room, where all other attendants are masked. Entire wait time, blood draw, and medical assessment ended up being 3 hours. Patient and family member asked if he could remove his mask. As his physician, what would you do?

I would have removed the mask and dared them to say something. But that is me being a caring feisty daughter.

 

[frustratedearthmother]

Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus

We talked to UCSF epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDC’s reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.

www.ucsf.edu

Can face masks protect against COVID-19?

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www.mayoclinic.org

 

[FarmerJamie]

Peace and love.

The next battle is now reopening in person school sessions. I respect @BarredBuff and his perspective, whatever that may be. For the record, in my extended family, I have 9 individuals who are teachers or work in an academic setting. With the circle of friends I have, the number doubles. Emotions are running at hyper levels.

The public discourse on this topic in the world outside this forum is already getting brutal. Let's leave that discussion out of our world here, please.

As we have already seen, there are no definitive presentations of data that we all can agree on. Here in Ohio, there are lawsuits against the governor's office and Dept of Health to release the data models used to implement the original lockdowns and well as the recent mask orders.

Anecdotal stories allow us to share experiences and perspectives. Hypothetical scenarios just cause arguments.

I leave you with a picture from yesterday where I felt calm and relaxed.

 

[TexasLisa]

I would love to join you on your trek through the woods! That brings back fond memories in S. Indiana!

 

[FarmerJamie]

I would love to join you on your trek through the woods! That brings back fond memories in S. Indiana!

One more...the peaceful sounds of the river. Was sunny, in the 70s along the river. 10 degrees warmer out of the valley

 

[BarredBuff]

The next battle is now reopening in person school sessions. I respect @BarredBuff and his perspective, whatever that may be. For the record, in my extended family, I have 9 individuals who are teachers or work in an academic setting. With the circle of friends I have, the number doubles. Emotions are running at hyper levels.

Thanks, FJ. I have not really commented a lot on this thread lately because I am a mix of everybody on this issue I think. I have a really weird blended perspective on all of it. I also can't stand the confrontation over it.

Last Friday, Kentucky implemented a mandatory mask rule in public settings. I spent most of the day Saturday worrying if my congregants would wear masks to church on Sunday. We had not been. Out of 100, 96 did. Which made me feel better because we bring in people from all over to our church and it could easily become a vector for COVID-19. Regardless of your opinion on masks, I do not want my folks to get sick or pass it around. We have people that don't need to get this virus. I also don't want to be on the news about it either. You can guarantee we would be.

With that being said, common sense tells me that a barrier of some sort covering your face and nose would have to help prevent spreading and contracting to some extent. I am not sure how effective, but it stands to reason that it would help to some extent. At the same time, I completely understand the perspective of those who feel like their liberty is being compromised. At times, I feel that way too. I also have a hard time with being lectured about wearing a mask by folks as well.

I wear a mask when I go out. It might help some, but a little is better than none.

We are being prepared to re-enter the classroom in the fall. I will have a modified schedule. We will be online only one day per week, and do AB schedules the rest of the week. My room is being re-done for social distancing, and we have to wear a mask. I think we need to go back to work. I think the data says that we can safely do it in a modified setting. But I am not in a high case area. So, that's different. My mother, who is a teacher, thinks differently than I do about this situation too but she teaches in a different system than I do.

I also agree with @FarmerJamie that the spite does not need to boil over here. My Facebook page is filled with folks who are choosing this hill to die on. I wish we could move past our divisions, and quest to be right and just respect one another. In all honesty, very little has changed with the virus since it first began except for the death rate (which is declining) and I think that we are being played by the media (Fox News and MSNBC) and politicians (Republican and Democrat). The worst we can do now is burn down our communities, friends, family, and internet pals for thinking differently on something that won't matter in 200 years.

Just my thoughts...

 

[the funny farm6]

hubby and I go few places, but depending on the place we do wear our masks. his dr has checked if the mask was helping bring down his oxygen saturations. when he first gets to the dr he wears his mask, but after the first low check (74 the last one) they then let him take off his mask. it went to 75. so no real increase. if masks were a problem it should raise more than 1%. we then spend a half hour doing breathing exercises to get it to 92%. were are on a list to get tests but have to wait for the hospital to get back to doing them. but hubby is closterfobic so if it is a small store with few people, we don't wear the masks. my worry is if we didn't have it if February what would it do to his compromised lungs now?

 

[Lazy Gardener]

Peace and love.

The next battle is now reopening in person school sessions. I respect @BarredBuff and his perspective, whatever that may be. For the record, in my extended family, I have 9 individuals who are teachers or work in an academic setting. With the circle of friends I have, the number doubles. Emotions are running at hyper levels.

The public discourse on this topic in the world outside this forum is already getting brutal. Let's leave that discussion out of our world here, please.

As we have already seen, there are no definitive presentations of data that we all can agree on. Here in Ohio, there are lawsuits against the governor's office and Dept of Health to release the data models used to implement the original lockdowns and well as the recent mask orders.

Anecdotal stories allow us to share experiences and perspectives. Hypothetical scenarios just cause arguments.

I leave you with a picture from yesterday where I felt calm and relaxed.

View attachment 14309

FJ, I agree with you, emotions around this topic are running high. But, I want to seek clarification from you. what anecdotal stories, or hypothetical scenarios are you referring to?

If you are referring to my post. This is NOT a hypothetical situation. This is the treatment that my Dad received during his visit to the out patient VA clinic last week. I was with him during the entire time of this incident. He is a frail man, has repeated episodes of dizziness (syncope) with the least bit of exertion. I don't see any bit of finger pointing or name calling, or other agression from one camp to an other in this thread. If we are not free to discuss these issues that affect every single one of us, then... Where is the freedom of speech? This thread is ABOUT Corona Virus concerns, therefore, THIS is the platform to be discussing these issues.

For the record, not only is my Dad frail, and suffering at the hands of medical staff in the name of protocol. But, when my DIL and I went to FL to bring Dad and Step Mom home from what was an abusive/neglectful rehab situation for him, and a situation of total abandonment and neglect for my step mom. She was in a state of crisis. Their physical state was so poor that my DIL and I were both kept working full time to meet their medical needs during the 2 days there, and we were in a total state of exhaustion. It was only by the grace of God that we got them both out of there when we did. I thank God that we did get them on the plane on Sunday, July 5. If we had not been able to do so, my DIL would have returned alone, leaving me alone to deal with 2 very ill geriatric family members. I can not city drive AT ALL, so would have been at a total loss to meet their or even my own needs if left behind. Half way through the trip, Step Mom collapsed in the bathroom, and I had to lift her out of the bathroom stall where she was wedged tightly, then lift her into her assigned airplane seat. I have to wonder: IF she had not been forced to wear a mask, she most likely would not have passed out. She was taken from plane to hospital by ambulance when we landed. My back is just now recovering from that experience.

My speaking out regarding the numbers and various protocols surrounding Covid is in no way meant to minimize this crisis, nor it's impact on every single one of us. I wish that there was a one size fits all answer to the medical issues surrounding this issue.

My heart cries for ALL of us during this time.

 

[Lazy Gardener]

For the record, when I took Step Mom to the Dr today, for an initial visit, they were going to turn us away. I insisted that she not be forced to wear a mask until her O2 saturation level was confirmed to be safe. They never bothered to test her level. They were going to turn us away altogether when they found out we'd recently been in FL. But I begged them to see us outside. The Doc agreed to see us in the car! I have been winging it regarding the management of her medical issues, specifically hypertension. No medical guidance at all, so the doc seeing us was not a frivolity, but an absolute necessity. He gained a lot of respect from me today. Because, he put patient needs above Janet Mill's protocol. He pointed out: Seeing this lady outside, in the car was actually much safer than ANY patient visit in the building.