East vs. West ... and a little bit of bragging on my kid

[patandchickens]

I've heard enough reeealllly bad things about various modern Asian models of schooling to not want to go very far in that direction. Apparently a number of Japanese, Singapore etc schools and parents are now moving in a more-Western direction (less intense and unremitting pressure) and finding it produces better results and fewer problems. So, I dunno.

Personally I think each side has some strengths and some weaknesses, you have to pick and choose what to do.

For instance I utterly disapprove of constant pressure about lots of things for kids; OTOH sometimes strong pressure applied in one direction at the right time for just long enough can make a real difference and have lasting *good* (rather than negative) effects.

You know, though, I don't necessarily have a problem with "there are no losers". It depends what's meant. Of course there is, obviously, only one winner of a particular game or competition, and kids need to learn to accept that.

OTOH the other players have gained something too, and I think it is an awful good idea to help kids learn to figure out what useful they've gotten out of any experience (whether it's "I can have fun even if I am not the fastest kid on the track" or "I really need to pay attention when the pony approaches the jump because he might stop or swerve" or "if I don't study, I am going to do terrible on the spelling test and that's not fun so I should study next time" or even just "I do not wish to do that again". It's all useful new information)

The thing I have a bit more trouble with is the classic "you can be/do whatever you want to be/do". Only true in the broadest sense. Not everyone can be President of the US, and no matter how much you WANT to be able to flap your arms and fly you just can't. Too often it's presented in those terms though, and that is not good IMO. However, if it is presented more thoughtfully, in the sense of "ok so you want to be President of the US, what steps do you need to take to pursue that goal AND what other things might bring you similar satisfaction... being mayor of a town, starting a business, helping run a charitable organization, what exactly *is* it about being President that you want and what are some alternatives you could consider too?"... THAT I have no problem at all with.

The thing I'm working on encouraging in my kids these days is Hard Work And Perseverance. Something I'm good at myself for tasks I enjoy but really suck at for non-enjoyable tasks, and I would really like to get the kids to grow up with a better work ethic for non-enjoyable tasks than I have myself LOL

So instead of saying "good job" or "nice drawing" or "cool snow fort" or whatever, I am trying lately to more-often focus on how they got there -- "hey, you really worked hard at that", "I saw how you rebuilt the snow fort after the wall fell over and isn't it great how well that worked out in the end?", sort of thing.

That's just my current hobby and I'm sure it will wear off to a large degree as time passes but hopefully I'll have gotten more used to working it into conversation in general by then

Pat

 

[tortoise]

So instead of saying "good job" or "nice drawing" or "cool snow fort" or whatever, I am trying lately to more-often focus on how they got there -- "hey, you really worked hard at that", "I saw how you rebuilt the snow fort after the wall fell over and isn't it great how well that worked out in the end?", sort of thing.

Pat this is GOOD STUFF! I am going to do this TODAY and try to make it a habit!

 

[abifae]

There is definitely a balance.

If you go too eastern, you will beat the children for 99% because 100 is all that is acceptable and you will not give them any encouragement, just let them know they have failed every ancestor ever for their poor performance.

If you go too western, you will praise your child for failing because they are so wonderful and special and you will ensure they never feel bad over anything they do because that hurts and hurting is bad.

So somewhere between "you are not perfect, you fail" and "you are perfect, fail away, i'll rescue you forever" would be good

I think encouraging THOUGHT (which will ruin their school lives but is better once actually out of school) and critical thinking, and exploration.... My nieces are told to think but that in school you must regurgitate information for grades because it's just a factory.

So they have two modes. Good grade mode and reality mode.

 

[kitchwitch]

Speaking as a coddled westerner I can tell you I barely passed high school and I have flunked out of 3 different colleges.

By the time I got my Associates I put the screws to myself and graduated with a 4.0 GPA.

I WISH my mother had been tougher on me, but she let me give up if I didn't want to do something, and when things with my schooling went pear shaped, she'd give up on me altogether because she didn't want to yell and fight. So even if she wasn't outright coddling me, there was no support system there at all so I just skated by in everything I did. I had no reason to succeed.

Deb: that kind of shame is something completely separate from the parenting issue. Shame is instilled on a cultural level, so even if you do PERFECT in school, if you sneak out of the house to go to a party and get drunk, you're still bringing an immense amount of shame onto your family. If you get laid off from your job, it's shameful. Shame effects everyone.

Tortoise: your son has very nice handwriting to be so young. You have to be so happy!

 

[me&thegals]

Handwriting isn't taught in public schools now. Not even cursive writing. And now in college they can't write fast enough to take good notes. Hello The purpose of cursive writing is being able to write quickly! My point - it's something I will have to teach at home. Easier now rather than later!

Yes, they both are, and extensively. My kids have beautiful writing.

 

[calendula]

Handwriting isn't taught in public schools now. Not even cursive writing. And now in college they can't write fast enough to take good notes. Hello The purpose of cursive writing is being able to write quickly! My point - it's something I will have to teach at home. Easier now rather than later!

Yes, they both are, and extensively. My kids have beautiful writing.

My sons are taught the D'Nealian script, which is a modified version of the printing I learned way back when, that is supposed to help them prepare for cursive writing:

http://www.dnealian.com/index.html

My oldest son is in 3rd grade and started learning cursive this year (which he absolutely loves!).

On a side-note, I went to public school and have neat hand writing. My husband went to a private catholic school where he was drilled with handwriting, and his handwriting is rather sloppy. I had a couple teachers who would simply make you redo your assignments if they were not legible, but I never had my hand slapped with a ruler if my letters were sloppy. I think there needs to be a good balance between permissive and strict parenting styles.

 

[mandieg4]

You are doing great with your son!

When we lived in Idaho my oldest was taught D'Nealian but when we moved to Georgia when he was in 2nd grade they forced him to write with the standard block style letters. Neither my 5th grader nor my 3rd grader know how to write in cursive. My 5th grader started learning cursive it 3rd grade. However, the teacher ran out of time and had to move on to other testable subjects so the kids only made it to the J's. I've taught them all enough cursive so that they can sign their names, but that is as far as I've gotten. I don't write in cursive so it hasn't been a priority. My kindergarten teacher let me hold my pencil on my ring finger instead of my index finger. I was in 3rd grade before a teacher noticed I was holding the pencil wrong and by then it was pretty much too late. I really wish someone would have cared enough to teach me properly and not allow the sloppiness.

 

[tortoise]

I forgot about this thread. My kid lost some enthusiasm for "tracing" although he still loves "workbook." I have let it go. He signed his name in a card and WOW... it was bad! I'll have to make an incentive for tracing to get him "into" it again.

 

[ORChick]

Its important not to get too hung up on *form*, to the point where content is forgotten. I'm not saying that anyone here is/has done that, but want to bring up the importance of not doing it. I went to American schools through 6th grade, and then my family moved to Ireland for a year. My handwriting was good, for an American 6th grader, but they write/teach a little differently in Ireland, so my teacher would mark me down for little things that I would do - that I had been taught to do - and would disregard what I wrote while penalizig me for how I wrote. For instance, the little tail that we make on a cursive "s", so that it connects to the next letter - in America the tail is still there even if the "s" is at the end of the word; in Ireland it is left off (a really important distinction, don't you think? :/). Another *form* issue was that all homework had to be written with a fountain pen. The fountain pen wasn't in and of itself a bad idea; I've noticed that my handwriting is actually better when I write with one. But essays, for example, were immediately failed if written with a ballpoint - without having been read! Teaching the lesson that the form was more important than the content. I was a contrary child, so I learned the rules for when the grades were important, and flouted them when I could, just to annoy the teachers.

 

[mandieg4]

I was a contrary child, so I learned the rules for when the grades were important, and flouted them when I could, just to annoy the teachers.

That is the exact reason I don't write in cursive. I hated it, it hurt my hand, and my 5th grade social studies teacher would not accept any work that was not written in cursive. I would write in cursive in his class and printed in all my other classes. In my defense, my print was much, much neater than my cursive, so I imagine that my other teachers were actually grateful for my stubbornness