Goat people......Should I buy it??? Should I????

[freemotion]

I am in a dilemma. I have goat fever. I decided to get another doe, and found one on craigslist, turns out kids who weren't doing chores, and they made new promises. She gave them a month, and kept my info.

So I found another person who has a preggers doe that I liked the mixed breeding of, and it is due in about 5-6 weeks. I have dibs on a doeling, if she has one.

While looking at the doe and papa, she introduced me to a purebred Toggenburg buckling for $125. I have been thinking of getting one, but the logistics and the cost of two goats in one year.....

Would electric wire on top of 4" fence keep a buck in? Her buck jumped that, without electric, and broke a leg, which she had repaired and he now lives in a 6' dog run.

I can't afford to do major changes, but I could run a wire on an existing section of fence that is now part of the yard, and enclose a bit of the storage area of the barn that adjoins that pen. He would hear the others but only see them when they go outside and behind the barn. Should he be a further distance?

If I got a doeling from her, it would be half-sibling to the buckling.

OK, understand the I just listened to a baby calling for mama, as the buck is about 3 weeks old and is just getting separated from mama for a few hours, fiascofarm-style. Another thing I like about this buckling is that he is not bottle-raised, so he is VERY healthy. The conditions on her farm were much like mine, but a little more $ behind things. So our philosophies are similar.

She told a story about a friend who recently had hoof-and-mouth disease introduced into her herd and HERSELF, sick for months now, from sending a doe to be bred at a farm that has 4-H events, and the disease was brought in that way. Yikes. Another reason to keep a buck.

See, I almost have it justified.....Help me!!!! Help me! Helllllppppp meeeeeee...........

 

[patandchickens]

You're familiar with buck smell and buck behavior when does are anywhere around...? (e.t.a. - I've never kept goats myself but from what I've seen people use for keeping bucks I'd have grave suspicions about your fence setup)

Just checking...

Pat

 

[Beekissed]

I'd say, if you have a good relationship with this lady and you trust her operations, why not just breed your does to her bucks for a small fee? That way you can be sure you aren't bringing home diseases and you get some lines you like.

The ramifications of housing bucks......and smelling bucks ....and putting up with the orneriness of bucks...........well, it would definitely be a walk on the wild side!

Free, I've been contemplating and planning for future breeding myself. Trying to work out housing and penning for a ram after each lambing....well, I will have to see how I can finagle it, but it isn't going to be easy. For now, the man I'm buying from said he would loan me his young ram for my first breeding.

 

[freemotion]

I looked for a buck last fall and couldn't find one that I liked to breed to in this area. She keeps a closed herd, that is why she has her own buck now. So she does not allow goats to come and go on her property.

I am not going to supply vaccination records to a breeder, either. Another obstacle. And there are a few nasty looking places with goats, not interested in going there, of course.

I considered AI, it is cheaper to buy a buckling and raise him up!

So, there it is. Anything else I'm missing? Guess I didn't fully count the cost....or was not fully aware of the problems with goat breeding in this neck of the woods. I am familiar with horse breeding, and figured it would be somewhat similar, but a little more scarce. Didn't think it would be THIS hard!

 

[SheriM]

Free, I bought my buck first, then found the does I wanted that complimented him, so I've had bucks as long as I've had goats. Mind you, mine are Boer, so they're much more likely to go THROUGH a fence than over. I have had Nubian bucks, though too, and they never jumped my fences. However, if you're worried about keeping him in, set up an electric wire at about shoulder height on the inside of the fence. He'll try to rub or what have you, get zapped and probably never go near the fence again. A hot top wire won't do much good if he's jumping over, since they have to be grounded (i.e. have their feet on the ground) in order to get zapped.

Last year, my buck spent the whole off season penned only 20 or 30 feet from the does with nothing but two page wire fences between them -- barnyard fence where the girls were, then 20 to 30 foot space, then page wire fence on his pen -- and he never made any attempt to get out, even later in the year when his hormones said it was breeding season and I said it wasn't. He could see them and smell them and when they were in season they would stand at the fence and do all the usual antics and still he didn't try to get out. But again, he was a Boer and weighed close to 300 lbs. Jumping was definitely not in his vocabulary, but he probably could have crushed the wire down any time he wanted. He was in a very large pen, maybe an acre in size, with a whether for company and that probably helped. He didn't feel hemmed in or confined. There was lots of grass to nibble, trees to rub on, etc.

I've never had a mean or ornery buck and I never will. That's not to say they're not out there, but there are plenty that are perfect gentlemen, no matter what season it is. The buck I have now is such a sweetie that I wouldn't hesitate to turn my back on him or even kneel down when he's in the pen with the girls during breeding season. If you buy this young buck, you can train him the way you want and teach him to respect you.

As a Boer breeder, there's no way I could run my operation without a buck, or more precisely, two or three of them. The only problems I've had were with the boys themselves. The big guy I mentioned above who stayed in the big pen with his whether buddy could not be housed with any other intact males, as he would wrestle with them and hook their legs with his horns. My other buck, the gentleman I mentioned, is very good with younger bucks and is usually my babysitter for the newly weaned intact boys.

 

[freemotion]

Thanks for the input. I like the idea of the shoulder-height wire, I can set that up in an hour and have everything already.

I would get the buckling at 2 months old. His papa looks like a sweetie, although it is April. I detected no unpleasant smells and had a full tour. Although it is April. But it is also raining here, and Mr Buck was standing in the rain, still with his full winter coat on (very cold spring here, they are hanging onto their coats somewhat.) He was very cute with his full beard and a topknot that I've never seen before. Too many pictures of goats with show clips! I loved all the hair.

Why didn't he smell? Out of season?

Would there be an issue if there was no buffer zone between the pens? My current area I have in mind is about 25' by 20' and could be expanded by another 10' and maintain a 10' buffer between the neighbor's yard with her daycare kids. That 20' strip currently contains my brooding pen, now holding the two toms until "the big day," June 1. I could reconfigure that pen, make it narrower and longer without buying any fencing, just move what I have now.

Am I making sense? I could scrounge up the money for the two goats, likely, but to buy a bunch of fencing and build something new this year is just not possible. But it can be done next year, with more time to save and plan. So when he is a year old or so, I could move him further into the pasture if needed.

The other issue is, can one safely breed half-siblings? The buckling is purebred, the possible doeling is part Nig, Oberhalsi, and half Togg. Mama is a cutie-pie, like a little deer.

I know I'm not thinking straight yet. I still here that little baby goat cry, I want to go pick him up, and I am far from over the loss of baby Liam. But I am really thinking life would be more ss if I just had a buck and two does.

Still waiting on my first four gallon batch of goat cheddar, need to turn it and repress it in about 20 minutes, then I can go to bed while it does the 12 hour pressing. Whew. I love cheese.

 

[Blackbird]

If he's what your looking for and what you need and is healthy - I say go for it.
But.. will he be all alone? He would probably be better with a goaty friend his size.
What kind of doe do you have now? Toggenburg milk usually has lower butter fat content that you might not like that taste of.
I'm getting a buckling this weekend myself

 

[SheriM]

Thanks for the input. I like the idea of the shoulder-height wire, I can set that up in an hour and have everything already.

I would get the buckling at 2 months old. His papa looks like a sweetie, although it is April. I detected no unpleasant smells and had a full tour. Although it is April. But it is also raining here, and Mr Buck was standing in the rain, still with his full winter coat on (very cold spring here, they are hanging onto their coats somewhat.) He was very cute with his full beard and a topknot that I've never seen before. Too many pictures of goats with show clips! I loved all the hair.

Why didn't he smell? Out of season?

Would there be an issue if there was no buffer zone between the pens? My current area I have in mind is about 25' by 20' and could be expanded by another 10' and maintain a 10' buffer between the neighbor's yard with her daycare kids. That 20' strip currently contains my brooding pen, now holding the two toms until "the big day," June 1. I could reconfigure that pen, make it narrower and longer without buying any fencing, just move what I have now.

Am I making sense? I could scrounge up the money for the two goats, likely, but to buy a bunch of fencing and build something new this year is just not possible. But it can be done next year, with more time to save and plan. So when he is a year old or so, I could move him further into the pasture if needed.

The other issue is, can one safely breed half-siblings? The buckling is purebred, the possible doeling is part Nig, Oberhalsi, and half Togg. Mama is a cutie-pie, like a little deer.

I know I'm not thinking straight yet. I still here that little baby goat cry, I want to go pick him up, and I am far from over the loss of baby Liam. But I am really thinking life would be more ss if I just had a buck and two does.

Still waiting on my first four gallon batch of goat cheddar, need to turn it and repress it in about 20 minutes, then I can go to bed while it does the 12 hour pressing. Whew. I love cheese.

I love those topknots too. I call it the "Elvis look".

And yes, he didn't smell because of the time of year. They don't usually get stinky till late summer, early fall and some are stinkier than others. With all that hair, you might find a Togg buck a little smellier.

As for fencing him in, I wouldn't worry too much, especially in his first year. He won't have the experience to know what does are for at first, so although the instinct is there, he won't be quite so motivated. I do suggest a whether friend for him if you can find one cheap (or already have one) because he's more likely to try and get to the does just for company. Also, if you find you need to beef up the fencing, you could probably find free stuff like pallets to do the job. Pallets can be a goat farmer's best friend!

Breeding half-siblings can be a touchy subject. I would never consider it with the Boer goats, but they have only been a recognized breed for about 50 years, so their gene pool is far more concentrated. To be honest, if you're going to line breed, it's better to do it down the line, as in grandfather to granddaughter, than laterally, but having said that, unless you plan to register the offspring and sell them as show stock, I'm not sure it would be that big a deal to breed them. Just remember that you are concentrating the genes, both good and bad, so if there are any serious flaws in either animal, you're more likely to see them in the offspring, but that also goes for the good points too. That's why people line breed in the first place.

If she's got Nigi in her, I'd watch her size, though. You don't ever want to breed a small doe to a larger buck.

I definitely agree with you about being more SS with a buck of your own and they really aren't that hard to keep once you get set up.

So, does goat cheddar taste like regular cheddar? I love cheese, but have to admit I'm not fond of the goat cheeses I've tried so far. To me, they taste too much like my goats smell, and I'm not talking about the buck smell, either.

 

[freemotion]

Thanks again, I am a tiny bit clearer this morning....just a tiny bit. I think I should get a buck, that is still strong, but should it be this one? Not with his half-sister, at least not the first time. I think I will wait until that doe delivers, and take a buckling or a doeling, whichever she has. Then look for the other. Meanwhile, I will keep my eyes open for a free wether.

Umm....how much smaller can the buck be to breed the doe? Are they determined enough to figure it out??

Is my potential pen big enough?

Tell me more about breeds and taste of milk....I did look at a Nubian who might be available if the kids neglect the chores again.

Sheri, I won't be able to tell you about the goat cheddar until June 15! That is when my first 2 lb wheel will be 60 days old, the minimum for raw aged cheese. It'd better be good, because I have 10 lbs of it now! My other goat products aren't goaty to me, but they are raw, so maybe that is why. I only have detected the faintest goatiness when I heat the whey for ricotta, and that was just once when I overheated it a bit. I didn't really mind it. Maybe Mya's milk is very mild, or that I don't have a buck.

 

[miss_thenorth]

Call me weird, but the smell of a buck has never bothered me. My sil has a big ole billy goat, and yes, in late summer he does have an odour, but seriously, it just smells like "farm" to me. The smell alone would not be a deterrent to me. My big concern would be -being able to keep him contained during breeding season. If what Sheri says is true, then you have about a year to get the fencing up to par. I don;t know anything about line breeding--might be the real thing to consider in this scenario.