Guess I'll try again.

[~gd]

Good to read you again. We had been writing about you and your user name because some one wanted info about ND and it's growing season. [Hubby has a job in the oil patch lined up] look up her posts if you want to help her.

I don't know squat about a rocket stove but I get the impression that you can't or shouldent control the air supply to the fire box? To keep a chunk burning all night my Dad would 'bank the fire'covering the log with ash so it burned slower but still kept the flue warm [You need a clean burning wood for this] This was in the fireplace before we got the 'oak stove' [brand name? most people called them pot bellied stoves] He loved that stove. air control and rocker grates to help with removing the ash and as long as the flue was warm it was smokeless in the house. To start from cold he would burn newspapers to warm the flue and then slowly build a real fire.
As for your dog buddy and your bum arm have you tried a Frissby [sp?]flying disk? I have a similiar problem [I tried not to look like the wimp I was for the ladies softball team that I was keeping score for] overhand is gone but side hand is good enough that I play "disk golf" on occasion very popular in the seniors circles. buddy may insist on a stick but they cas be side handed too. ~gd

Hey Pal,
Long time no see from you either. Glad you are here!
As for the Frisby, well, yes I have tried it and I admit that it is by far the best option. The only problem is that they are not immune from the teeth of that black beast. He chews everything I throw so I have to be careful. I bought a whole bunch of them and in one bite, he turns them into insignificant pieces of plastic. I had one that lasted a bit longer but they are hard to find out here in the wilds. Remember, the closest city (pop. 26091) is 70 miles from me. Not someplace to run for a quart of milk...

As for the rocket stove, I have been studying them for a while now. I have built a number of them and am finding ways to work with them. The basic design is amazing in that once they are burning they really don't put out any smoke because the burn is so complete.
The smoke comes at the beginning when getting it started. Controlling the air supply is an interesting issue and I have given some thought to trying that by limiting the amount of wood in the combustion chamber of the short vertical side (exposed in front of the steel tank on the photo) similar to the way it is done when using the "L" configuration. The amount of air appears to be important so I think I'll try putting a piece of steel in the side of the opening and keep the wood on the other side. It would be much the same as the "L" shape but still allow a fairly large piece of wood to be placed in the combustion chamber.

There is a modification I have been reading about where someone added an opening just ahead of the vertical stack of the "J" in the horizontal section which is designed to allow a great deal more air into the hottest portion of the fire (*at the intersection of the horizontal to the vertical stack) but so far I have not attempted to make such an opening to evaluate the results.
I intend to get a number of 5" tubing, 20 feet long and make them into rocket heaters, hoping that they may result in some financial gain. We'll see what comes of that if anything at all. It really isn't a high priority for me at the moment. Heating my shop is my goal. Once I get the first prototype completed and operational, I will begin to vary my parameters and see what results. I am still thinking that I might split the logs just a bit to allow the fire to get up inside them and help keep them burning all night. I have also given come consideration to adding a 6" square piece of tubing to make a small "oven" on the vertical stack. I saw one done by a guy someplace in Europe and it looked quite nicel Considering the fact that I can achieve over 500*F with the stack as it is, that would be a marvelous added benefit to be able not only to heat the shop but bake/cook with it. We'll see what comes of it. My colleague on YouTube (ZFF) did not seem to be going that direction but at the top of the tank there is certainly area for a flat plate of steel which on his heater reaches nearly 700*F. I'll bet I could boil some tea on that in a heart beat!
More as I get time...
Cheers,
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni
Trim sends
//BT//

They do make disks specifically for dogs In fact there at least two models one for distance and one for hover height. Down here where the water remains unfrozen most of the time they hold contests for dogs where they throw objects over water for dogs to chase. Both use a takeoff platform to give the dogs a running start so both are known by the name Dock Dogs. Rules are like the broad jump and high jump for humans except there are no foot faults and distances are measured by cameras from dock edge to splashdown for distance and triangulation for height. I learned most of this because I went to protest the use of the only public pool in town for the doggy games seems like the local health people and never heard of Leptospirosis even though a popular name is Ft. Bragg Fever and the fort is just down the roadRemember the first disks were metal pie plates from the Frisbee Pie Company in CT
If I owned your building I would be packing the dome with insulation and what is your fixation on smoke all about? Here in the pine woods we have people on the lookout for smoke all the timeGot to run. ~gd. Out.

 

[Icu4dzs]

If I owned your building I would be packing the dome with insulation and what is your fixation on smoke all about? Here in the pine woods we have people on the lookout for smoke all the time

I seem to have this nasty habit of liking to breathe clean air. Thus breathing smoke when it fills the room Tends to annoy my tender lungs.
I have considered filling the building at the top with insulation of the spray on variety. The real problem is getting people to do stuff in my neck of the woods. There aren't that many people who do things and the ones who do are generally so busy they don't have time.
I do generally need altitude in the building in order to be able to get my tractor in that room so I can work on it when I have to.
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni
Trim sends
//BT//

 

[~gd]

If I owned your building I would be packing the dome with insulation and what is your fixation on smoke all about? Here in the pine woods we have people on the lookout for smoke all the time

I seem to have this nasty habit of liking to breathe clean air. Thus breathing smoke when it fills the room Tends to annoy my tender lungs.
I have considered filling the building at the top with insulation of the spray on variety. The real problem is getting people to do stuff in my neck of the woods. There aren't that many people who do things and the ones who do are generally so busy they don't have time.
I do generally need altitude in the building in order to be able to get my tractor in that room so I can work on it when I have to.
Saepe Expertus, Semper Fidelis, Fratres Aeterni
Trim sends
//BT//

Ok now you have got me really confused Are you saying that a rocket stove does NOT exhaust to the outside? Is it supposed to but that is one of those little bugs that have to be worked out of Your stove? Smoke is bad but it is better than taking the long sleep brought on by Carbon Monoxide that is often produced with smoke. In case you haven't figured it out I thought you were concerned about the smoke OUTSIDE, hence my comment about piney woods and people being on the outlook for smoke. Here you have to have a permit for a outside burn, and if it gets away from you and into the pine woods you can be charged as a felon~GD

 

[Britesea]

I've read that, properly done, a rocket stove doesn't exhaust smoke-- just a little water vapor. I don't know if that's true of an RMH though. I would still vent it to the outside though

 

[FarmerChick]

it is good to see you back

 

[Icu4dzs]

Ok now you have got me really confused Are you saying that a rocket stove does NOT exhaust to the outside? Is it supposed to but that is one of those little bugs that have to be worked out of Your stove? Smoke is bad but it is better than taking the long sleep brought on by Carbon Monoxide that is often produced with smoke. In case you haven't figured it out I thought you were concerned about the smoke OUTSIDE, hence my comment about piney woods and people being on the outlook for smoke. Here you have to have a permit for a outside burn, and if it gets away from you and into the pine woods you can be charged as a felon~GD

The rocket stove is designed to produce little if any products of combustion. I have had the thing burning about 500*F but that is only after it has "warmed up". The actual rocket stove, once burning produces essentially water and a little CO2.
The rocket mass heater is a rocket stove inside a steel shell. Whatever smoke or POC is produced it has to be exhausted to the outside. I have some new photographs of my progress thus far. I will publish that and it should make more sense. My intent is to heat my shop which by my calculations is about 17,600 cubic feet (35 x 35 x15 high). In the dead of winter when the air is
-25*F it is a bit difficult to work out there. This particular configuration should generate enough BTU's to do the job...I hope. That is the theory at least. My current project has a cross sectional area about 36 square inches (6 x 6) Steel tubing. The horizontal (combustion chamber is 24 inches long, the vertical component, is 47" tall. I have a 16.5" diameter steel water tank (3/32" thick) which I calculated to leave only about 2" at the top between the top of the vertical component and the inside top of the steel tank. I've been made to believe that this distance is critical for the operation of the heater. Any gases that are produced inside this tank can be exhausted through a 5" steel tubing that I welded onto the bottom of the tank. That will be led to a tubing that should be able to exhaust any gases/smoke generated to the outside. (yes, I agree...I am NOT ready for the long sleep)

Once this thing is heated up properly it will consume (i.e. burn almost everything so completely) the products of combustion so that essentially no toxic gases escape. I have had it burning hot enough to see that be true but the slightest adjustment of the wood or change in the temperature in the combustion chamber will generate some smoke at first which needs to be exhausted out of the building.

The difference with my project is that I am NOT going to build the large cob bed through which the heat would travel and be stored. The figures I have read on that indicate that the weight alone is in excess of 7000 lbs and while I do have it on a cement floor in the shed, I would like to be able to move this thing (I use my tractor to lift it) until I am certain as to where I want it to live. I am not good at making certain types of decsion and that is one of my biggest drawbacks when doing a project like this. Once it is built, I will determine what size space I can heat with it and then decide where it will live more permanently.

I will put some pictures up so you can see what I am doing. I worked on it yesterday. I got the rocket stove set on the bottom of the tank which I had cut away from the top of the tank. I cut a hole in the lower portion of the tank and welded the steel exhaust tubing into that so all I have to do now is connect the exhaust tubing and run it out of the building. The temperature change from the top of the stove will be significant. My hope is that the heat will cause the tank to heat up and the exhaust gases (if any) will be in the 140*F range (down from about 700*F at the top of the vertical component). That change should in most circumstances provide all that heat to my shop instead of putting it out the exhaust and trying to heat the great outdoors such as we see with a wood burning fireplace.

Somehow, I get the impression that I am NOT explaining this as good as I need in order to make it understandable. I hope the pictures will assist me...confucius says "one picture is worth 1000 words..."

 

[~gd]

Ok now you have got me really confused Are you saying that a rocket stove does NOT exhaust to the outside? Is it supposed to but that is one of those little bugs that have to be worked out of Your stove? Smoke is bad but it is better than taking the long sleep brought on by Carbon Monoxide that is often produced with smoke. In case you haven't figured it out I thought you were concerned about the smoke OUTSIDE, hence my comment about piney woods and people being on the outlook for smoke. Here you have to have a permit for a outside burn, and if it gets away from you and into the pine woods you can be charged as a felon~GD

The rocket stove is designed to produce little if any products of combustion. I have had the thing burning about 500*F but that is only after it has "warmed up". The actual rocket stove, once burning produces essentially water and a little CO2.
The rocket mass heater is a rocket stove inside a steel shell. Whatever smoke or POC is produced it has to be exhausted to the outside. I have some new photographs of my progress thus far. I will publish that and it should make more sense. My intent is to heat my shop which by my calculations is about 17,600 cubic feet (35 x 35 x15 high). In the dead of winter when the air is
-25*F it is a bit difficult to work out there. This particular configuration should generate enough BTU's to do the job...I hope. That is the theory at least. My current project has a cross sectional area about 36 square inches (6 x 6) Steel tubing. The horizontal (combustion chamber is 24 inches long, the vertical component, is 47" tall. I have a 16.5" diameter steel water tank (3/32" thick) which I calculated to leave only about 2" at the top between the top of the vertical component and the inside top of the steel tank. I've been made to believe that this distance is critical for the operation of the heater. Any gases that are produced inside this tank can be exhausted through a 5" steel tubing that I welded onto the bottom of the tank. That will be led to a tubing that should be able to exhaust any gases/smoke generated to the outside. (yes, I agree...I am NOT ready for the long sleep)

Once this thing is heated up properly it will consume (i.e. burn almost everything so completely) the products of combustion so that essentially no toxic gases escape. I have had it burning hot enough to see that be true but the slightest adjustment of the wood or change in the temperature in the combustion chamber will generate some smoke at first which needs to be exhausted out of the building.

The difference with my project is that I am NOT going to build the large cob bed through which the heat would travel and be stored. The figures I have read on that indicate that the weight alone is in excess of 7000 lbs and while I do have it on a cement floor in the shed, I would like to be able to move this thing (I use my tractor to lift it) until I am certain as to where I want it to live. I am not good at making certain types of decsion and that is one of my biggest drawbacks when doing a project like this. Once it is built, I will determine what size space I can heat with it and then decide where it will live more permanently.

I will put some pictures up so you can see what I am doing. I worked on it yesterday. I got the rocket stove set on the bottom of the tank which I had cut away from the top of the tank. I cut a hole in the lower portion of the tank and welded the steel exhaust tubing into that so all I have to do now is connect the exhaust tubing and run it out of the building. The temperature change from the top of the stove will be significant. My hope is that the heat will cause the tank to heat up and the exhaust gases (if any) will be in the 140*F range (down from about 700*F at the top of the vertical component). That change should in most circumstances provide all that heat to my shop instead of putting it out the exhaust and trying to heat the great outdoors such as we see with a wood burning fireplace.

Somehow, I get the impression that I am NOT explaining this as good as I need in order to make it understandable. I hope the pictures will assist me...confucius says "one picture is worth 1000 words..."

Well you are right about one thing. The more I read the more confused I get! Like how does the smoke get from the stove to the exhaust? You keep talking about complete combustion leaving no products of combustion which I know is wrong each mole of carbon is going to combine with either one [mono] or 2 [di} moles of oxygen that is high school chemistry both are deadly Monoxide is toxic but you can drown in dioxide if it displaces air. And I dont get how you expect any hot gas is going to fall to the bottom of your tank to be discharged. Yep I will wait for the pictures before I make myself even a bigger fool~gd

 

[Icu4dzs]

Well you are right about one thing. The more I read the more confused I get! Like how does the smoke get from the stove to the exhaust? You keep talking about complete combustion leaving no products of combustion which I know is wrong each mole of carbon is going to combine with either one [mono] or 2 [di} moles of oxygen that is high school chemistry both are deadly Monoxide is toxic but you can drown in dioxide if it displaces air. And I dont get how you expect any hot gas is going to fall to the bottom of your tank to be discharged. Yep I will wait for the pictures before I make myself even a bigger fool~gd

Perhaps my description of the combustion failed to admit that carbon dioxide and water are produced. It is more important however to realize that the harmful products of combustion are the ones which are consumed and transformed into the waste products, CO2 and H2O. I did post a few photographs in Post #2. There you will find the basic configuration with the tank over the J tube and the round tube on the bottom immediately behind the J tube is where any smoke will egress to the outdoors. I think there won't be much smoke but if there is, I would rather it go outside than fill my shop so I have to open more doors to let the smoke out.
This really isn't that difficult. Hope this helps...eh ~gd?

 

[xpc]

GD, for crying out loud - yes we get it, your're a chemist - now quit bringing up moles and big ass numbers, if you do then please explain them to us and quit belittling people.


P.S. I loved your advice about burying the tomato plants deep in high heat.

 

[Denim Deb]

Actually, in defense of GD, he's toned down his posts a lot! And, w/the discussion that he and ICU are having, this is actually an appropriate usage of his terms. In chemistry, moles are a unit of measurement. Here's a link that explains about moles. When he talks about carbon bonding w/either two (di) or one (mono) oxygen, he's talking about carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. Simple enough. I'll admit to having a bit of a head start on this type of discussion since I had 4 semesters of chemistry in college-including 3 of organic, but it's also been quite a number of years ago. I've probably forgotten about 95% of what I learned.