Buster
Lovin' The Homestead
Thanks, bib. You prove the point I was trying to make regarding the subtext of your posts, better than I ever could.
Joel Salatin...a messy discussion
- Thread starter Occamstazer
- Start date
Is this fellow making a "contribution to a movement" or is he just doing what he wants to do, and teaching what he wants to teach? I don't know him at all, so I am clueless.
Seems to me that any successful business will be market-driven. If there is a call for women's training and internships, a smart businessman will, for example, build a second bunkhouse for women. If there are women who wish to take the training and he does not accommodate them, then there is something else going on, such as the prejudgement that women are unable to handle the tasks.
As a sinner saved by grace, I have seen other sinners saved by grace relegate women to second class status for more than 50 years of adult church attendance. This is nothing new. However, it is a choice made by the men, not by the Lord. It speaks far more to the character of the man than it does his faith purview.
If women wish to learn these things and he does not make that possible, his message is clear. He considers them inferiors and unable to perform "men's work".
Seems to me that any successful business will be market-driven. If there is a call for women's training and internships, a smart businessman will, for example, build a second bunkhouse for women. If there are women who wish to take the training and he does not accommodate them, then there is something else going on, such as the prejudgement that women are unable to handle the tasks.
As a sinner saved by grace, I have seen other sinners saved by grace relegate women to second class status for more than 50 years of adult church attendance. This is nothing new. However, it is a choice made by the men, not by the Lord. It speaks far more to the character of the man than it does his faith purview.
If women wish to learn these things and he does not make that possible, his message is clear. He considers them inferiors and unable to perform "men's work".
Buster
Lovin' The Homestead
If Joel Salatin wanted to expand, believe me, he could. He couldLdychef2k said:
create his own brand of "beyond organic" and market and sell it nation wide, if not around the world. He is incredibly famous among food activists, and I'm sure the temptation is enormous sometimes.
But that is just not what he is about. He is very much about sustainability, not about getting rich. Other folks in hist position have succumbed to the temptation, sold out, and became fabulously wealthy.
Not Joel. He is right where he wants to be, doing exactly what he wants to do at the level he wants to do it. He has absolutely no need for additional year round apprentices, and no desire to expand to the point where they would be required. If he ever does, it will be because he believes it to be sustainable, not something that will make him rich.
I would suggest you read The Omnivore's Dilemma, by Michael Pollan. You will then know who Joel is and why he is so special.
patandchickens
Crazy Cat Lady
May I gently suggest that before you go drawing disparaging conclusions about what message is clear, it might be good to find out more about what the guy does and what he's all about.Ldychef2k said:
Realio trulio.
Pat, who finds his writings annoying in many ways, but still has enormous respect for his knowledge, his energy (!), his independant streak and bullheaded (in a good way) insistance on doing things His Way, and the amount of time and energy he puts into 'spreading the word' so to speak.
Beekissed
Mountain Sage
I agree. This is America when last I checked. If I want to run my farm in my long underwear, by golly, I am just going to do it. 
My farm, my way, my stuff, my methods.
I have read many of his books and I don't see any mention that folks HAVE to take his apprenticeships. Actually, he more or less does this as a mission, so that others can learn his methods.
A mission, as in volunteering his time for a cause in which he believes. Yeah, he's making money doing it but the man was making enough money for his family way before he was charging for tours and taking on apprentices. I like his enterprising spirit!
The Amish aren't real into making women equals either, but we all seem to buy their stuff anyway. I guess it's all in how you look at it....
It's not like he's the only one teaching these methods now...there are others who are teaching sustainable farming practices. Don't like Joel's take on things~ go elsewhere!
My farm, my way, my stuff, my methods. I have read many of his books and I don't see any mention that folks HAVE to take his apprenticeships. Actually, he more or less does this as a mission, so that others can learn his methods.
A mission, as in volunteering his time for a cause in which he believes. Yeah, he's making money doing it but the man was making enough money for his family way before he was charging for tours and taking on apprentices. I like his enterprising spirit!
The Amish aren't real into making women equals either, but we all seem to buy their stuff anyway. I guess it's all in how you look at it....
It's not like he's the only one teaching these methods now...there are others who are teaching sustainable farming practices. Don't like Joel's take on things~ go elsewhere!
Blackbird
Goat Whisperer
Anyone wanna start a Dorothy and Jackie thread? 
Buster
Lovin' The Homestead
Good point. Nature's Harmony might be a good one to look at.Beekissed said:It's not like he's the only one teaching these methods now...there are others who are teaching sustainable farming practices. Don't like Joel's take on things~ go elsewhere!
bibliophile birds
Lovin' The Homestead
i'm stepping out of this thread because we don't seem to be getting anywhere. Buster, you seem to think i'm set on smearing Joel's good name, and i think you are set on making me into some conservative-bashing slanderer.
my last words on the subject: i think what Joel does is wonderful. i think his books are insightful and helpful. i've recommended them to several people. i think he's more than welcome to run his farm the way he sees fit. but i have reservations about how some of his ideals affect those he deems objectionable in some capacity (which feels like a whole lot of people). i don't think there is anything wrong with that. it's not some dirty secret he's trying to keep hidden so i don't think he'd be particularly upset that i'm discussing it... like you said, he's very independent minded and isn't all that affected by what people think of him. i'm learning what i need from his books but harbor no delusions that he and i would be best chums if we met. again, that's ok.
i'm more than thrilled that some lucky people get to apprentice with him and have such a good experience, as Grady seems to have had. i do hope Grady sticks around, not only as a former Polyface apprentice but as a kindred spirit. we all have different takes on things, but that shouldn't stop us from conversing and debating.
ps: I've read Pollan's works and am currently reading the same Wendall Berry book as you Buster. see, even though we argue, we're on the same team.
my last words on the subject: i think what Joel does is wonderful. i think his books are insightful and helpful. i've recommended them to several people. i think he's more than welcome to run his farm the way he sees fit. but i have reservations about how some of his ideals affect those he deems objectionable in some capacity (which feels like a whole lot of people). i don't think there is anything wrong with that. it's not some dirty secret he's trying to keep hidden so i don't think he'd be particularly upset that i'm discussing it... like you said, he's very independent minded and isn't all that affected by what people think of him. i'm learning what i need from his books but harbor no delusions that he and i would be best chums if we met. again, that's ok.
i'm more than thrilled that some lucky people get to apprentice with him and have such a good experience, as Grady seems to have had. i do hope Grady sticks around, not only as a former Polyface apprentice but as a kindred spirit. we all have different takes on things, but that shouldn't stop us from conversing and debating.
ps: I've read Pollan's works and am currently reading the same Wendall Berry book as you Buster. see, even though we argue, we're on the same team.
Farmfresh
City Biddy
I think that is good advice for the whole forum!bibliophile birds said:
We are not always in the same boat, but mostly we are all rowing in the same direction!
