Meat rabbit question

[ChickenPotPie]

I couldn't wait any longer. My buck started showing symptoms this morning. Little damp around the nose and on the front paws. I took him in to the vet for a nasal swab and it's being sent out to the lab to culture and see what my bun-buns have.

Aw, not good. Did the vet tell you that most rabbits will come back positive when tested for Pasturella even if they are healthy? When evaluating the rabbits consider environmental influences.

I think I remember reading that your cages are 24x24 and you change pans, at least in winter, once a week. Those dimensions are too small for FAs and the frequency of pan cleaning not frequent enough. The fly cycle goes every 5 days so cleaning two days per week is needed for a cleaner rabbitry as well as keeping the air cleaner for breathing. If you're battling URIs you do need to look at what they're breathing.

Look at air exchange, too. You can increase air exchanges by adding a heavy duty bathroom fan to your shed that lets you choose how many full room air exchanges per minute you want. Adding simple vents on either end of your shed will not only help with air flow but release heat in summer time.

 

[tortoise]

My cages meet AWA standards. I clean pans about every other day when it is above freezing. (No heat out there.) They get lots of time out in the grass in ex-pens. (All day anytime grass is dry and temps are 60 +). No flies in there. The wind blows through and there's no smell when temps are over 60.

From talking with 2 vets, the culture will show whatever is actively causing the disease. The blood test will show if the rabbit has ever been exposed.

So, IF it is pasteurella and IF I want to start over with a pastuerella-free closed herd, I need to purchase the stock, quarantine for 3 weeks, THEN do the blood test, then cull or return stock that has been exposed to pastuerella. And then I would need to separate enclosures - one to quarantine and one for the herd.

I only have the one shed to work with here. And not unlimited $ to drop $100 on a rabbit, plus whatever for the blood test, when there's a 50% chance that I'm going to have to cull the rabbit!

That sounds crazy-expensive and I'm not sure I can turn around a profit in a reasonable amount of time. There are only two breeders within driving distance. If their stock is not pasteurella free, then I'm screwed. Shipping rabbits is like $200!

The one breeder I bought from might be a source of this stuff. I vaguely remember one rabbit having a touch of a runny nose before, but it didn't spread and she spontaneously got better, so I left it at that.

Another option is to keep what I have as wool-producing pets and wait approx 6 years until they die. No breeding, no selling. Treat them with "cherrybomb" (sulfa antibiotic) for the rest of their lives. I'm not convinced there is enough market for wool to have them profitable. If they paid for their feed, I'd be happy. There are a couple really sweet rabbits in there.

What I don't understand is my rabbits have such mild symptoms. No sneezing, no coughing. A little clear "damp" around their nose and paws. The pictures I'm finding of these pasteurella rabbits with abcesses and wry necks and everything - that seems so severe!

Uggh. I'm already impatient for lab results. I could get preliminary results back by Thursday. Final results the following Tuesday.

I think I'll put some nose goo on a slide and see if I can see anything under the microscope.

 

[ChickenPotPie]

I know you said your cages meet AWA minumum requirements but I go by American Rabbit Breeder's Association standards (their minimum requirements are slightly larger than AWA standards) and by own experience. I've had a FA before and the 24x30 hole he came to my home in was the minimum I'd keep a FA buck in. I like to give breeding does need even more space for their nest box and litter and add a floor support. That is my preference.

It sounds like cleanliness of the air or confinement in an unclean environment is not your problem. I admit that I'm not understanding your process for testing for or finding pasturella free stock as most rabbits will test positive for it even if they will never get sick with it in their lifetime.

As far as turning a profit, all I can say it that rabbits are not really money makers. My friend Betty Chu who raises and shows English Angoras gave a seminar on the Angora Cottage Industry. If you know Angoras, you probably know Betty as the "famous Betty Chu" but you might not know that she also has a PhD in ecomomics and taught the subject at SJSU for many years. While *some* actually make a reasonable living in marketing/selling angora to textile buyers of large companies and individual fiber artists, most can only hope to pay for feed from selling their stock and products - and that is wonderful. I'm really not trying to sound discouraging, just realistic. Turning a profit on rabbits will take much time and work if it's done right but will be worth it.

I really think you ought to go to a few shows once your feel your rabbits are up to it. You'll only learn a lot. You'll know how your rabbits stack up to the others in your area, you'll get helpful comments on both the strengths and weakness of your rabbits, and that will help you to decide how to breed better stock. And, if you do real well, grand your rabbits and network a little, you will be better able to know what price your stock warrants and probably find a good outlet for your kits. It will help you to learn more, give you a chance to build a good reputation, and broaden your market. Having good, winning show stock to sell will help you be able to ask for more reasonable prices for your kits instead of having to settle for something less. If you decide you don't like shows, well, at least you can take home the knowledge you gained from the judges and other exhibitors.

One more thing, re-reading the symptoms, "clear damp" would not worry me at all. If the lungs sound clear, I'd expect any damp to clear up quickly. It is enough to be alert about but not much to worry about yet. As you said, true cases of Pasturella and/or wry neck will show more than just a damp nose or paws.

 

[ChickenPotPie]

Does anyone have the book "Keeping Poultry and Rabbits on Scraps?

http://www.amazon.com/Keeping-Poultry-Rabbits-Penguin-Handbooks/dp/0141038624

It's a republication of a 1940's book that has come out again because this new trend of SS due the economic crisis and uneasiness of war that us and our fellow country men are feeling right now.

I've thumbed through a copy before and loved it. I've ordered a copy for myself.

Anyone have it? What do you think about it? Anyone here using it for info on raising your meat rabbits?

 

[tortoise]

As far as turning a profit, all I can say it that rabbits are not really money makers. ... While *some* actually make a reasonable living in marketing/selling angora to textile buyers of large companies and individual fiber artists, most can only hope to pay for feed from selling their stock and products - and that is wonderful. I'm really not trying to sound discouraging, just realistic. Turning a profit on rabbits will take much time and work if it's done right but will be worth it.

I should define what I mean by "profit" Paying for themselves and a little bit more for upgrades - maybe some spending $. I'm not trying to support myself - I don't think I have enough get-up-and-go to create a large enough market for wool and kits.

One more thing, re-reading the symptoms, "clear damp" would not worry me at all. If the lungs sound clear, I'd expect any damp to clear up quickly. It is enough to be alert about but not much to worry about yet. As you said, true cases of Pasturella and/or wry neck will show more than just a damp nose or paws.

Maybe I can relax now. The symptoms cleared up after 3 doses of antibiotic. I started the rest of them on it today. I'm going to stick with the 3 week course of antibiotic just-in-case. and crossing fingers that the culture is negative.

If the culture is negative, do you think I should blood-test them for pasteurella?

 

[tortoise]

The pre-lim culture is negative. Vet couldn't find protocol on how to proceed just in case it is a false negative. The vet didn't think a false negative would be something to worry about since pastuerella is an aggressive bacteria. However, I've read online that false negatives are common, so I'm not sure who to believe.

The vet also believes that 50% of rabbits will show positive on the blood testing whether or not they actually have it. My rabbits all come from show breeders and have been shown, so they've probably been exposed. (how could they not?!) But a negative blood test would make me feel better.

Assuming the final culture result is negatice, what would you do? Relax and forget about it? Keep testing to try to find out if they've been exposed to pastuerella?

 

[tortoise]

Final result on the culture came in today. Negative for pastuerella. Vet suggests it may be a virus because they are continuing to have mild symptoms while on the antibiotic.

I looked up differential diagnoses for URI's in rabbits. One of the possibilities is inhalation of an irritant. The alfalfa pellet I use leaves a fine powder in their food dishes. I think I'll switch them all to another pellet that doesn't "dust" and see if that changes anything.

 

[ChickenPotPie]

I looked up differential diagnoses for URI's in rabbits. One of the possibilities is inhalation of an irritant. The alfalfa pellet I use leaves a fine powder in their food dishes. I think I'll switch them all to another pellet that doesn't "dust" and see if that changes anything.

They all dust or leave fines to some extent but some more than others. What feed are you using now?

Here's another thought. We are having one of the worst allergy seasons EVER, could air born allergens be a problem?

 

[tortoise]

The powdery stuff is 100% alfalfa in pellets. A friend gave me a 50 lb bag so I've been using it up. I think I'll stop using that for a couple of weeks and see if it makes a difference.

That would be a nice easy fix. I mentioned it to the vet and he looked at me like I was possessed and completely out of my mind. :/

I read that allergies are rare in rabbits.... Not sure if that is true.

 

[ChickenPotPie]

The powdery stuff is 100% alfalfa in pellets. A friend gave me a 50 lb bag so I've been using it up. I think I'll stop using that for a couple of weeks and see if it makes a difference.

That would be a nice easy fix. I mentioned it to the vet and he looked at me like I was possessed and completely out of my mind. :/

An easy fix by taking them off the pellets? I'd look at you crazy, too. I've never heard of any one giving their rabbit 100% alfalfa before.

If you want good condition and health results, just remember you'll get out of your rabbits what you put into them. Try Advanced Nutrition Purina Show formula (blue bag). It's what I use and it has always worked great. The formula is fixed and fines are much less than others I've tried.

My friend Betty uses 50% Purina show (blue bag) and 50% Manna Pro for her world famous Angoras.

I'd be skeptical about rabbits having allergies, too, and I'm kinda thinking that unless you are hearing something in the lungs, you may have nothing to worry about.