No Knead Sourdough and more questions!

Dace

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Ok maybe someone can help me to clarify some of these directions.

NO-KNEAD SOURDOUGH
After Mark Bittman's feature in the New York Times (November 8, 2006) on Jim Lahey's no-knead bread, I received many inquires asking if it is possible to make no-knead sourdough. It took just one look at Lahey's recipe to focus on the 12 hour "rest". It seemed pretty obvious. Lactobacilli in a sourdough culture "fermenting" for 12 hours should produce a far better flavor than teaspoon of instant yeast and no lactobacilli. It is only necessary to modify the recipe for the extra flour and water added by the sourdough culture. Here's what it looks like.

Recipe (see note)
Produces one 1 pound loaf
1 cup fully active sourdough culture
440 grams (3 cups) all-purpose or bread flour, more for dusting
1 cup water
1 teaspoons salt


In a large bowl briefly combine sourdough culture, flour, water and salt. The consistency should be very firm and shaggy. Cover bowl with plastic wrap and proof 12-18 hours at about 70 F. At 70-75 degrees the bread leavens well and has the distinct sourness and flavor of sourdough. At more than 75 degrees the dough becomes too acidic which inhibits the wild yeast and leavens poorly. At much less than 70 degrees the dough leavens well but has a mild flavor.

After the 12-18 hour fermentation this is very sticky dough. Use a plastic spatula to ease it away from the edges of the bowl onto a lightly floured board. Sprinkle the surface with additional flour and let the dough rest 15 minutes or so.

With minimal handling and additional flour (not more than cup) form a ball which is placed directly in the baking container to rise (or placed between cotton cloths as described by Lahey) and proofed until ready to bake, double in bulk (about 4 hours). The baking container can be almost any small covered pot (avoid willow baskets since the sticky dough is difficult to remove).

Lahey bakes the dough in an oven and container both preheated to 450 for approximately 1 hour. To obtain better oven spring place the risen dough in its container in a cool oven, set the oven at 450, turn it on and bake for approximately 1 hour and 10 minutes. You will never knead a better sourdough!

First it says to let rise in the container that it will be baked in and then it goes on to say the baking container should be preheated, then again says to place the risen dough in a cool oven....very confusing. Perhaps the author is just pointing out how Lahey does it and comparing his own cool oven method?

Also....it says to use any small covered pot. Huh? Can't I bake a free form loaf or use a bread pan?
 

ORChick

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"Perhaps the author is just pointing out how Lahey does it and comparing his own cool oven method?"

Thats what it looks like to me. Also, I think that he mis-wrote in at least one instance - talks about the baking container, and then warns against using willow baskets; I think he must have meant "rising container" there. I have never tried the no knead bread, so can't say why the insistance on a covered container, usually, I believe, a dutch oven - but perhaps it has to do with keeping the heat concentrated close in to the loaf, like an oven within an oven. I have a clay "cloche" (http://breadtopia.com/store/round-la-cloche.html), which has a similar function, but lets me make a free form loaf. They are expensive however. I used a terra cotta pot and saucer to make a second one, and that works nicely.

ETA: The dutch oven might also be used in this instance to hold the shape of the loaf. Such a slack dough would, I imagine, have a tendency to "rise" outwards rather than upwards without support.
 

Dace

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OK awesome!

Do I just oil up a dutch oven so the bread comes out after baking??

Also maybe you can answer me this....I have my so-called starter, which appears to be lazy, because it does not double. It only rises by about 20% at best.

How should I proceed? Pour 1/2 out and just keep feeding? The last two times I feed it I just added to the jar without taking any out because I was hoping to increase the volume, but I think that may have been a mistake...although it had been in the frig as a 'flop' that is saved just in case. It looks bubbly and active just not as active as a good starter should be....maybe it just needs a firm scolding?
 

freemotion

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The proofing step refers to making sure that your yeast or your sourdough starter is working before you waste all that flour with it. For a yeast bread, for example, you sprinkle the yeast on warm water with sugar to make sure it is alive and active.

So if your starter won't double, that is the "proof" that it is not ready to bake with. At least that is my understanding of the process!

Try a firm tone as you scold it, with a hand on one hip and the other shaking a wooden spoon at it. That always worked for me and my siblings when my mother did that. :D
 

ORChick

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I read somewhere, and no longer remember where, that when the starter needs a little more 'oomph" it is better to dump out most of it, and start again with new flour and water. Goes against reason, doesn't it? And for all I know I might have dreamed it. But the idea is, I think, that the remaining wild yeasties will have a field day with all the new food. Whereas just dumping half, and feeding to bring it back to the same level, means that more yeasties are competing for less food. Make sense? ***In case I have this all wrong you might do as I do when reviving a starter that I "might" have left too long between feedings. I put some of it in a new jar, and feed as usual, and leave the rest of it alone, or feed it too, but do not toss it out. That way if one or the other doesn't come back to life I will still have the other to work with ;). So far I haven't ever needed this fall back plan, but I still do it on occasion.
 

Emerald

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Do not grease or oil your dutch oven or you will just smoke out the kitchen!
Once the dutch oven is nice and hot you dump in the dough and put the hot lid back on and the steam will give it that nice texture- and it shouldn't stick at all, mine never have.
 

Dace

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ORChick said:
***In case I have this all wrong you might do as I do when reviving a starter that I "might" have left too long between feedings. I put some of it in a new jar, and feed as usual, and leave the rest of it alone, or feed it too, but do not toss it out. That way if one or the other doesn't come back to life I will still have the other to work with ;). So far I haven't ever needed this fall back plan, but I still do it on occasion.
Hahah...that is how I ended up with 3 jars of starter...and there is a 4th in the frig. Your theory makes sense I think. For some reason I just have trouble getting my head around it all. It is much more complex than I anticipated!

Ok...so another question. Of the two jars that I have going (tossed one as it just smelled like flour) One is a 2 quart jar and the other is a 1 quart.

The larger one has more volume in it and rose 30% today (yes, I measured :p)...it rose and receded before the smaller jar was done rising.
The smaller jar has less volume but rose 40%....slower and bigger rise.

I am sure that those differences, fast shorter rise vs slower fuller rise have some significance. Can anyone tell which one is closer to being usable? I am putting my money on the slower fuller rise jar.

Edited to add...the larger jar hit it's peak and had already fully receded over an hour maybe two ago...the smaller one is still up buy 40% and looks like it is almost ready to start receding....been holding steady for an hour or two.
 

Dace

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Emerald said:
Do not grease or oil your dutch oven or you will just smoke out the kitchen!
Once the dutch oven is nice and hot you dump in the dough and put the hot lid back on and the steam will give it that nice texture- and it shouldn't stick at all, mine never have.
So if I am using wet loose dough, I just dump it into the hot DO??
 

Emerald

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Dace said:
Emerald said:
Do not grease or oil your dutch oven or you will just smoke out the kitchen!
Once the dutch oven is nice and hot you dump in the dough and put the hot lid back on and the steam will give it that nice texture- and it shouldn't stick at all, mine never have.
So if I am using wet loose dough, I just dump it into the hot DO??
Yup! Sounds strange I know but it works- I just put the dutch oven in the cold oven- get the heat up to about 400 and let it heat for at least 15 to 20 minutes then that loose/slack dough that has been rising in the bowl is just "flipped" carefully into the hot dutch oven and the lid put on and baked for about 30 minute with the lid on and about 20 or so with the lid off to brown nicely and the temp turned down to about 375.
 

ORChick

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"I am sure that those differences, fast shorter rise vs slower fuller rise have some significance. Can anyone tell which one is closer to being usable? I am putting my money on the slower fuller rise jar."

I would bet on that one too.

As for all your extra, I put mine in the compost pile ;)
 
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