propane vs. solar appliances

[bibliophile birds]

does anyone have experience with either of these? from what i've calculated, a 45w solar array would provide plenty of power for the VERY limited usage i'm anticipating if i go forward with my house remodel project (basically a few lights, limited tv, and laptop charging). EXCEPT, of course, for a refrigerator, a washing machine, and a stove.

i'm thinking about a wood cook stove since it not only cooks food but heats the house as well. my only worry is that it might be too hot to cook on in the summer... especially since i'm not leaning towards air conditioning.

a lot of the super eco refrigerators can run on about 15 Kwh/month, which, if i'm doing the math correctly, is 500w/day. which is a pretty big solar array. but, from what i'm reading, a similarly sized refrigerator can also be powered by 1.5-1.75 gallons of propane/week.

i haven't looked into the washer information yet, but i'm wondering if anyone has experience with these systems on this kind of scale or they have any pros/cons of one over another.

 

[rebecca100]

I don't know exact amounts, but dh used to be a propane serviceman. He has told me in the past that propane appliances such as refridgerators use very little propane. I know our camper refridgerator is propane and it lasts all summer-maybe longer on a small bottle. I knew some people who used a wood cookstove year round. They did okay with it, but they had it near the door and some windows to let a breeze through. The only thing is that it really doesn't do well heating a house, so you would need a seperate wood heater. The firebox on a wood cookstove is too small for heating. Which also keeps down the heating the house in the summer since you won't be building a huge fire.

 

[bibliophile birds]

good to hear about the propane camper refrigerator! that is sounding better and better.

as for the cook stove, this is the one i was looking at and it claims to heat 1500 sqft. the house i'm contemplating remodeling is under 800 and it already has a fireplace in the main room. do you think that would be sufficient? winters here usually hover in the mid-teens to 40s.

 

[k0xxx]

I would think that it would depend on the layout of your home. We've found that our wood stove (non cooking type) puts out a lot of heat, but getting that heat into the various rooms required some creative use of fans. Even then it isn't that efficient. Having the fireplace will probably help. An insert might help it produce more usable heat though.

I would think that with the square footage that you are talking about that you may be in good shape. Sure is a pretty stove. I hope my wife doesn't see it.

 

[Denim Deb]

I like that stove. I've been designing my dream home, and want a wood stove in the kitchen, as well as a regular stove. And, that's what I'd be looking for.

 

[rebecca100]

That is my dream stove too! It is like the one those people I knew were using, but theirs was older. It had a small firebox. Less than 1'x1'. I just can't see how a box that size will heat well. Perhaps you ought to contact the maker in order to make sure that it heats like you want. It may be one of those that heats well, but you have to be continally adding wood and won't heat overnight or something.

 

[patandchickens]

In my experience (never owned a woodstove but hung around with a bunch of people who did) they seem to be more appropriate in cold-winter climates (like up here) than further south with milder winters.

Reason being, if it is seriously cold outside you are probably not going to have them make that part of the house too hot and if it DOES get too hot you either set up fans or open a window

A woodstove WILL make the house too hot in summer where you are -- this is a large part of the reason for the whole 'summer kitchen' concept So you would want some other means of cooking in the hot months.

Even just a regular woodstove (the heating-only kind, not a cookstove) can be hard to use a lot of the time in warmer climates, in my observation, since times when you want heat can be brief enough that by the time you have the thing really rolling and heatin' the house up, it's 50 F outside again and now the house is too HOT

For fridges and freezers (and anything else with a pump, such as a well pump) remember that they draw a lot more current when initially starting up, so you cannot use the *running* numbers for sizing your solar system, you have to use the *starting* numbers.

If it were me and I wanted to go off-grid I'd be quite tempted by the propane option for fridge and freezer and cooking (at least), but it would depend how much you mind being dependant on ongoing reliable access to propane delivery. Solar is an economical and sensible power source for lights and laptop and so forth, IMO, and if you are splitting up your power sources *anyhow* than I think it makes perfect sense to include a solar component.

Pat

 

[bibliophile birds]

I would think that it would depend on the layout of your home. We've found that our wood stove (non cooking type) puts out a lot of heat, but getting that heat into the various rooms required some creative use of fans

here's the layout i've been working on. it's ALMOST to scale: i took the measurements by myself so i did the best i could with a tape measure that wanted to wiggle and roll. it's about 27ft x 27ft, which is 729 sqft.

3D view

everything is shown as it is now except that i've added a wall in the right side room to make a little bedroom in what is now one open room and i've put in stairs in the left side room to see how that would work if i put a loft over the back bedroom. i've also switched the only closet (in the back bedroom) so that it opens in the kitchen and serves as the pantry.

since heat rises, would leaving the kitchen ceiling open to the rafters help with summer cooking? or would it just destroy the heat benefits in winter?

In my experience (never owned a woodstove but hung around with a bunch of people who did) they seem to be more appropriate in cold-winter climates (like up here) than further south with milder winters.

A woodstove WILL make the house too hot in summer where you are -- this is a large part of the reason for the whole 'summer kitchen' concept So you would want some other means of cooking in the hot months.

my parents have a wood stove in their basement that they use mostly in December and January. it acts like radiant floor heating for their tile and wood floors and keeps the unfinished basement from getting too cold. it definitely helps with their heating bills, but its not something we sit around...

maybe if i paired the wood cook stove with a solar oven for summer use? i could always use the cook stove at night like once a week to crank out bread and meals i could easily reheat with the solar oven.

 

[patandchickens]

maybe if i paired the wood cook stove with a solar oven for summer use

As long as you have a plan for a) a cloudy day, b) three cloudy days in a row, c) a week and a half of nothing but rain, or d) days when you are away overnight and don't come home til afternoon or evening.

Pat

 

[Bubblingbrooks]

We have heard lots of good things about the Pioneer Maid and Princess cookstoves.
Prices are really good too.
The Princess will heat a house very well, and to cook, you just turn the knobs to get the smoke direction changed.
They allow for tempature control in the oven as well.
Options for full water heater as well.