Raising livestock a bit more naturally...

[Cybercat]

Hi beekissed...I think that we share a similar outlook on natural "farmsteading".

Have you read this book- "Gaia's Garden A Guide to Home-Scale Permaculture" by Toby Hemenway... I bought it recently (wanted it badly enough to pay full price for it) and have really enjoyed learning his techniques.

This book is not so much about livestock, but about 'layering' and building 'forest gardens'. Self renewing landscapes and gardens that follow nature- so you don't have to do so much work yourself. Its like intensive gardening but takes it further.

I'm still planning on improving my property by incorporating his techniques and improving the lives of my animals. I'm a softie though- my critters are family. In my pastures the following can be found at any time-llamas, miniature horses, chickens (about 8 different breeds, ornamental and dual purpose), African geese, Toulouse geese, cats, dogs and even a couple of free range bunnies. (The bunnies don't wander off because they want to stay near the does in their bunny tractors.)

I'm still trying to formulate my life philosophy and actually trying to live that life. I am nowhere near where I want to be, but more content than I have ever been.

 

[Beekissed]

more content than I have ever been

Same here! And it feels absolutely lovely!

I have not read that book but will look for it at my library, for sure!

You know, I never really thought about how to raise my livestock or even dwelled upon it for many years, but in the past 4-5 years I've been answering a different call....can't put my finger on exactly why, but I'm trying to follow it. I can't help but think its God's way of showing me a way through hard times to come.

 

[freemotion]

Oh, cool thread, great resurrection!

My horse and pet goats were a great combo, the goats scrambling through the hay to get every leaf that the horse didn't want, anyways. Same with the pasture. The goats cleared the remaining brush, the horse ate the grass.

Now no horse, but goats, including a dairy goat along with the pets (who may be bred this fall, trying to decide....they are still young enough, and each had a successful pregnancy before I got them) and chickens and turkeys, all to free-range the well-fenced pasture. Hoping the turkeys stay home!

The three guineas are for tick patrol, although I have seen a silver-laced wyandotte scratching on a cud-chewing goat for ticks!

I plan to add two worm bins in the cellar this summer for a herd of worms for the birds next winter, maybe sell a few for bait, as we have a large lake nearby and a competitive fisherman next door to tell me where and how to sell bait worms.

We have improved the pasture vastly, and continue to do so, with compost and a scythe and NO power equipment. I did have a truck come in to spread lime after the trees were removed, as it was wooded when we moved here seven years ago.

I plan to dry and store the hay produced from the spring scything and again in late summer. As the pasture improves, I may one day make a haystack, but for now, it is too precious, and will come into my small storage area.

I like the idea of rabbits over chickens. Will have to tell dad about that one, he has been thinking about it anyways. DH just agreed on turkeys for meat, he will never agree to rabbits! But if things got really bad, rabbits would be a great way to feed the house pets.

 

[Beekissed]

I've almost got my youngest son talked into using my pastured pig's progeny (say that 3 times real fast!) for entering into the Ham and Bacon show next year. I plan to breed my Large Black back to her sire and raise the piglets to sell. I want to pasture her with my sheep on rotational grazing.

That was the kicker! My lazy son figured out that his record keeping book would be a breeze on a pig that one doesn't have to buy feed for! I want him to enter the hams from one of the litter into the show and see how grass-fed measures up to the others. Just for fun! I don't really care about the outcome but it would be kind of cool to find out how lean and flavorful the ham is compared to the others.

Plus they pay these kids about $5 per pound for their 20 lb hams at the sale! Mo' money, mo' money......

 

[Beekissed]

Well, found a source for kelp meal online at Thorvin's. Incidentally, this is where Salatin gets his....funny, that.

Folks....kelp meal is some expensive stuff! My local feedstore can get it for me for $55 plus tax for 50#. With S&H online, it comes to about $70 for 50#.

I wouldn't even consider something so expensive if it didn't go a far piece and it didn't yield such good results. Supposed to use 1/2 oz. with sheep on a daily basis if mixing with feed. If fed free choice, its supposed to go farther and be more beneficial.

From everything I've read on it, it is supposed to deliver the needed supplements, in a more natural way, that are easier to metabolize than commercial mineral supplements.

Supposedly, if fed free choice, the sheep, cattle, etc. can eat it only when they need it and not just given a set dose. Salatin describes his cattle eating quite a bit when first given, then settles down to just dabs here and there. He feeds this with coarse salt. Says cattle do better on low nutrition hay and will clean it all up if offered kelp meal along side.

I'm interested in giving these sheep the best nutrition for what money I have. I've seen the quality of hay and pasture they are currently getting and I feel I can do some better. I want to see how much I can change growth and health by feeding and supplementing better than they currently have.

So, better hay, better pasture, more natural supplements, raw ACV in the water and Basic H de-wormer. All natural ways to achieve better results and grow healthier, meatier lambs and ewes with a higher milk production, multiple births and big lambs.

Its worth a shot anyway!

 

[Cybercat]

Hi Beekissed!

I want to get some kelp also...I've read several statements about the value of feeding it to livestock...I think I can get it through my llama catalog, although I'll have to look it up...llamas are ruminants too, so they can use some of the same feeds and supplements as goats.

One of the things I've been trying to research is adding herbs to the animals pastures so they can "self medicate"...does Joe Salatin have anything to say about that? I keep meaning to get some of Joe's books but haven't done it yet. What I've seen so far are suggestions to grow a fence-row section just chock full of herbs but fenced off until you are ready to let the animals in to browse...I would do that for the slower growing herbs but plan on overseeding the pasture with fast growing herbs so the livestock has access for nibbling whenever they want.

It would be really interesting to follow your goats as you give them the best nutrients and natural lives...I wonder if you have thought about tracking your results..?

I'm also going to plant some mulberry trees for the poultry and geese to munch on in the pasture. I don't know if the mini horses will be interested, but I'm sure the llamas will be snarfing the mulberries off the ground if the birds leave any! I know that nut trees are supposed to be a great natural food source for hogs...they love 'em.

Leanne

 

[Blackbird]

Quite the topic!
I'll list what we do with our animal setups:
In the winter we usually house the chickens, ducks, peafowl, and guineas in the same building. About half of the rabbits are in cages suspended in that building; deep litter method. It can get a bit chaotic in there, but nothing we can't handle.
The rest of the rabbits are show rabbits and in another shed with the pigeons and currently with the chicks.
The dairy goats are housed alone in their shed (ok, cats too), any clean hay they don't eat is fed to the donkey, or given to the geese, turkeys or other birds to peck through.
We leave the geese out all winter (with shelter), the turkeys are in our 'new' old 'barn'.

In the spring/summer the chickens are let out in the run, and locked up at night, many can fly so those ones are always out and free ranging, which is welcomed. The ducks originally have their own pen, but the Muscovies free range (great fly control in the goat shed). The peafowl and guineas have their own pens.. we once free ranged them, but are basically limited to pens now, (people love running guineas over). We want to free range the guineas eventually for ticks, but we're going to wait until we have 20+ before we consider it.
The rabbit cages have stands outside that allow feed/droppings to fall through, the free range chickens & ducks clean up anything there.

For the goats, we have limited pasture area, so the doe's have their pens, which are roomy, but not as big as we'd like, but keeps the milk tasting clean from grasses.
The bucks however are turned loose in the pasture/woods behind the house with the geese. Each spring a swamp/pond area forms the entire pasture area, but when it dries tall grasses grow throughout it all.

We originally got the donkey for protecting the goats, but he has an attitude problem and would eat the goats before he protected them. I want to sell him off and get a llama but Mom thinks he should stay.

Again, all hay bedding on top that is pretty clean is fed to whoever will eat it, and the rest is compost which the chickens have access to and enjoy digging through.

When we had pigs we had to keep them in a pen because we didn't have the pasture in the backyard set up, but I would like to get some more now that its fenced up, but not sure yet.
This summer we are planning to extend the doe's pens and the donkey area alot farther back into the woods, and possibly the chicken run.
The 'new' old 'barn' that I mentioned the turkeys were in used to be a chicken barn years ago, when we moved here my dad put all his stuff in it, but we have a machine shed, so my mom and I want to turn it into the new goat barn because its warmer in winter.
Medicines.. we've never used convensional or 'chemical' medicines on the poultry, and don't plan do. We try to do things as natural as possible, and use herbal wormers etc. with the goats and rabbits. I've been told that I'm completely wrong for doing that, and that herbal anything does NOT work, but its not stopping me, and I've noticed the difference, so oh well?
Phew! Sorry to ramble, but hope that gives a general idea of how my mom and I do it..
Also, Bee, what is ACV?

 

[ticks]

Hey Bee, I found this last night.
http://gannett.a.mms.mavenapps.net/...onfrontplayer&maven_referralObject=1080364110

It is a man who is raising a herd of Pigs in VT's biggest city, using the space for a good purpose, not really naturally but its just a small little private lot in the suburbs.

 

[Beekissed]

Hey, Cyber! I haven't read anything in Salatin's books about growing herbs to self-medicate for livestock but I'll do some searching on the subject...maybe someone else has written something?

Amos-- ACV is Apple Cider Vinegar!

Ticks, I have dial-up so I didn't get to see that video...sorry. It sounds like a recipe for disaster, though....I can't imagine city folks putting up with pigs next door.....heck, they won't even tolerate a few chickens!

Cyber, I plan to track my progress as closely as possible, but I won't be doing any lab tests or fecal testing when I use the supplements or all-natural worming. I will be going by the end results, mainly. Like Amos, traditional farmers are quite discouraging when talking about using natural methods for supplements and worming. After all, they use the commercial solutions and it works well enough for them, so why won't people listen?

"Well enough" isn't quite good enough for me, considering all the high powered chemicals used in the de-wormers. I'll stick with a more natural program until someone can show me its harming the animals.....haven't heard much of that happening, so I will continue to seek out ways to do it better, not easier, not always cheaper...just better.

 

[Blackbird]

"Well enough" isn't quite good enough for me, considering all the high powered chemicals used in the de-wormers. I'll stick with a more natural program until someone can show me its harming the animals.....haven't heard much of that happening, so I will continue to seek out ways to do it better, not easier, not always cheaper...just better.

Very well said!
A very well known goat person somewhere online told me that herbal wormers kill goats! they didn't offer any explanation about what herbs they even were.
I'm sure you probably read all about that though...

And I should have known that it stood for apple cider vinegar, we use it all the time!