Shiloh Acres - RAIN!!!!!!! and maple syrup! ;)

[Shiloh Acres]

Also gave kid another 2cc or so of liquid B since it seemed to help so much.

She's NOT happy getting milk from a syringe but she must be swallowing it.

 

[lwheelr]

We had a slow starter too. I syringe fed her an electrolyte mix that I had on hand (powder - cost about $4, and I only used about 1/4 tsp for the doeling), plus molasses. About a teaspoon of molasses, plus that electrolyte mix, in about half a cup of hot water.

Our doe would not nurse. I syringe fed her about 1 syringe full of the mix (that is all she would take), and wrapped her up to get her warm. Came back an hour later and she was rooting when I got my hand near her head. Took her out and held her up to nurse on mama. She didn't seem to suckle more than a few times each time we took her out that day (about every two hours), but she did gain strength, so it must have been enough. It was all uphill from there.

Strong kale and nettle tea plus molasses is another option for getting some concentrated nutrients in. In general colostrum is best, but sometimes they need something really concentrated to jump-start them when they are struggling.

 

[glenolam]

It sounds like she's going to be just fine. Keep an eye on her and watch that she's nursing and continue to milk mom out.

I wouldn't force feed the via syringe or bottle at this point. If you *think* she's nursing and she's playful, passing mustard poops I'll be willing to bet she really is nursing. If she's down again and lethargic that's when I'd start thinking what to do next.

 

[Shiloh Acres]

Thanks again all.

I think the nursing is going to be ok. She's better than she was -- she keeps getting better and better. She'll stay latched and suckling for about 30 or so seconds, she finds the teat most of the time, and mom is nudging her into position where before she often backed away. She kept her temp up outside, which it was a warmish day with a light wind. I put a windbreak up around her favorite resting spot.

I'm still debating what to do about the curled under back legs. When she first stands, she stretches and positions herself. It doesn't look totally normal -- kinda puts me in mind of tiptoes, but she IS standing on the hoof rather than the fur on the front of the leg joint. If she walks very slowly she maintains, at least for several seconds. I think she tires after a minute or so, or else she wants to get somewhere, and under they go again, and she's back to walking on the front of the joint with hoof curled under, or maybe just dragging the folded leg along.

I did get the stuff to splint it (had to buy a big box of the sticks and I probably only need one LOL) but I haven't decided if I should do it yet. I'm leaning toward letting her go tonight and see if she continues to improve, since it's time to put them up in an hour or two anyway.

So. That's where we are. I need to get my computer hooked up so I can get some pics posted.

 

[freemotion]

Do a little physical therapy several times a day, moving the joints and very gently holding them closer to the correct position for a few seconds at a time....just to the point of resistance. The selenium will help. I'd give her the rest tomorrow and some more B's.

The doe needs it, too. Too bad your vet didn't know that. Probably because goats are so specialized and vets learn next to nothing about them. I suspect the goat section consists of, "This is a goat. Avoid them at all costs." The baby would not be deficient unless the doe was pretty much depleted. The babies are favored over the mom, so if there was anything in her to give, the babies would get it. So she is dangerously low, too.

I just got in from giving my other pregnant does BoSe shots and they all got B vitamins and are on the Red Cell regimen, too. This is also important in keeping worm levels at bay, as mineral depletion leads to worm overloads, especially this time of year.

See how much I've learned in the past year? Nothing like a crisis to get me to sit up and take notice! My three black does were all black 2-3 months ago, then BAM! Copper deficiency in the two Alpines who were preggers. Started with a new batch of lovely horse hay that is not lovely goat hay, but all I could get. Most hay here is from heavily fertilized fields, which can also lead to or exacerbate deficiencies.

 

[Shiloh Acres]

Thanks Free.

I've actually been doing something similar -- putting her leg in proper position while standing for a few moments as that is about as long as she will hold it. When she lies down it's more natural though so every time I am there when she lies down I make sure the joint is in the proper position. She can maintain it while lying.

I will give her the rest tomorrow. Vet loaded it in a LOONNGG needle which is NOT easy to stick in baby goat thighs.

And LOL on the "avoid them at all costs"!

I found BoSe by the bottle online for about $17. I wonder if there's a way to get a prescription for all. I thought it was too early to have to worry MUCH about worms -- it's been pretty cold here early in the week.

My wether is acting odd though -- skittish and not as hungry as normal. I found dog-like poo in the pasture and I think it's him. Checked his eyelids and he is a pale pink. My other doeling almost died last summer from bottlejaw, so I wanna stay on top as much as possible. I'll see about getting everyone built up, and ask my hay guy. I didn't know that about fertilizers. There isn't much choice in hay though. I think almost everyone does about the same. They are eating very little hay since things are greening up tho.

Thanks much. Will be looking into more BoSe. Now I wish I'd bought the gallon of Red Cell last year instead of the quart.

And yes, it's amazing how much you've learned. Agreed, nothing like a crisis (or series of crises!) to jump-start your education!

 

[freemotion]

I'm sure with all your attention the doeling will do great. Mine already are getting stronger and the doeling now is finishing her bottle faster than her brother! They are up and moving around more now, too, not just snuggled up together in their box. I did put coats on them and that helped, too.

 

[glenolam]

My vet said they are recommending giving pregnant does BoSe about a month prior to kidding regardless for just the reason Free said.

Glad to hear the doeling is doing better, though!

As for your wether - how old is he? Since they're eating more browse as opposed to hay could he have a coccidia infection?

 

[Shiloh Acres]

Glad to hear yours are doing better too, Free. That's one thing that made me wonder. Seems she spends almost all of her time lying down, and that's not what I expect of even a few-day old baby goat. Course she's not even two days old yet, and if she lets out a tiny call, mama rushes to her to nurse, if she's not already by her side. Baby doesn't HAVE to move much, but she does change her spot at least a half-dozen times a day.

My wether is the oldest by a few months. He is probably about 16 months old. I think the buck and two does then are around 14-15 months. I'd have to check my records, but that should be close if memory serves. He's also the largest, or at least the tallest, but he's half Alpine and the others are Nubian or half-Nubian mixes. I'm thinking Alpines are supposed to be bigger? Or maybe mature faster? At any rate, my Alpine doe last year was larger sooner than my Nubian of the same age.

I hadn't thought of coccidia. I only tend to think of that with babies? However, I wonder if my little Nubian doe didn't have it at some time. She was around four months old when I got her and seemed healthy. She did have a serious bout with bottlejaw (barberpoles?) last summer and I almost lost her. She has always seemed small, and is quite a bit smaller than the doe that just kidded, though she's a little older.

Her half-brother is my buck though, and despite being healthy and muscular, he's not that tall either. His mother was good-sized, but I didn't get that close to their father. Maybe they are just smallish.

 

[glenolam]

I'd get a fecal done on your wether, if possible.

And that doe you almost lost could have had her growth stunted by that bout with barberpole and/or whatever else was going on. It's a possibility anyway.

I don't think coccidia is as common in adult goats, but I know it can happen, especially around this time of year when the ground is really wet and nasty.