Sometimes I envy the Amish.

[patandchickens]

I started out my kids with the mindset of not getting so dependent on something that you "can't" or "won't" do without it. This way, you're not so unprepared and at a disadvantage when you DO have to do without it. <snip>
Dependency comes in sooooo many forms. Self-sufficiency isn't only about trimming the fat on the finances and making things from scratch.

Wonderful post, Beekissed. SO true!

<applause>,

Pat

 

[enjoy the ride]

Maybe the question for this post is not "need" but what harms a satisfying life rather than promotes it. True need might be limited to food and water, warmth in cold areas but for most people, that would make life a grind and cause others harm.
Maybe what makes the Amish way of life have appeal from the outside looking in is that it appears to have eliminated some things that cause more stress and pain than those things relieve. For instance Beekeepers radio issue- if you listen to the radio for information or even to wholey enjoy some music, that is not neccessarily harmful. If you have it going without paying attention to it, it is a drug to turn off your mind and is therefore harmful.
I enjoy the zen of depooping- I get out with my brooms, manure forks and wheel barrow and go around checking things out while I clean up- I listen to the birds and watch wild life and just work out problems. Do I need my now "reduced to two" horses, no. They do cause me anxiety and money that sometimes is hard to come by. Especially since I can't really ride now. But I feel an obligation to my old girl who did work for me for years, to provide for her. But does her keep (and her companion) take something away from the thoughtful life????
The goats produce for me so that doesn't come into play with them unless they become so numerous that they are a burden.
But maybe the key, if you are feeling unsatified with life, it to look at toatal effect of what you are doing. Will you get 3 years of real satisfaction from that new car while you pay it off? Or will the old rusty trusty do.
I think I need to go off and depoop to consider these things.

 

[pioneergirl]

Hope this post isn't seen as hijacking the total point of the thread, but it seems we are maybe sharing what we can do, are willing to do, or have already done to simplify our lives, so I'll share my little bits.

This year I have planted the garden, and am trying my darndest to make/grow/preserve/freeze as much food as I can for this winter. I am making my own bread, and other things. I also try really hard (and am quite succesful) at not using the clothes dryer. I don't turn on any lights during the day and well into the evening. The tv stays off after I watch the news. My kids are not allowed soda unless its a 'special' occasion, and then its in moderation. There are NO video games allowed in our house, and I refuse to buy them. When its time to eat ANY meal, we all sit at the table together. No toys, phones, tv, radio, etc. We talk about our day, week, plans, books, etc. Everyone helps prepare, and clean up.

This is by no means a perfect house, nor am I a perfect mom. Its just a few things I try to do to make my children more grounded. A few things I do to help my little acre of ground. I tend the garden, tend the chickens, tend the dogs, help my neighbors and in-laws when I am called upon, make as much of my own food/supplies as possible, and try to be as frugal as possible. I think in that way, those of us that make those choices, are more like the Amish than we know!

 

[patandchickens]

Maybe what makes the Amish way of life have appeal from the outside looking in is that it appears to have eliminated some things that cause more stress and pain than those things relieve.

I think so. I think also that many people are unacquainted with the very hard work and looooong hours (like, start working at 4 a.m.) and nonnegotiable schedule required by nonmechanized diversified farming such as the Amish or Mennonite do.

Do I need my now "reduced to two" horses, no. They do cause me anxiety and money that sometimes is hard to come by. Especially since I can't really ride now. But I feel an obligation to my old girl who did work for me for years, to provide for her. But does her keep (and her companion) take something away from the thoughtful life????

For all that there are a great many admirable things about the Amish and Mennonites, I tell you what -- I would not want to be your average Amish or Mennonite *horse*. Especially the road (as opposed to draft) horses. Obviously there is variation, but by and large the horse (often an already not entirely sound Standardbred that failed at the track) is the family car and just as you take YOUR car to town even if it's making a funny noise or burning a little oil, same deal with the horses. They are not always sound or comfortable in their work, and quite often have a fairly short working lifespan (trotting on pavement is really not good for horses' legs). (And usually, end of working lifespan = end of lifespan period).

Much as there are good things to be said about the Amish or Mennonite lifestyle, I think there is also a lot to be said, in some respects, for a life in which we can afford to avoid doing damaging things with our horses, retire them when they become uncomfortable in their work, and continue to take care of their feed and medical needs for the rest of their natural life.

So it is not a simple 'Amish good, modern world bad' equation. Not that anyone has actually said it is but this thread has been painting less than completely accurate picture...

JMO,

Pat

 

[Beekissed]

Maybe the Amish are largely brought up to regard animals as food, or as tools. I'm not necessarily agreeing with their outlook on this, but I can see the value of it in some lifestyles. I understand the Indians were much the same way, for the most part. Their horses were mostly utilitarian and not so much a part of the family. I think its just the modern, more politically correct view now to think of animals as pets or family. Most settlers could not afford to keep livestock animals as pets and, thus, animals were viewed with much more practicality. In lean times they were food, if hard work was required by them to keep the family from starving...well, tough on the horse.

I don't think the Amish are allowed much frivolity in their religion and lifestyle. Sentimentality is not a trait they tend to cultivate, either, I believe. As they have different cultural beliefs in these matters, they can't really be judged by our standards.

If a culture that worshipped cattle were to view America's massive intake of beef, they would likely feel we were quite the barbarians. Its strange, really, how folks think its okay to kill and eat a cow, chicken, pig, goat or sheep but draw the line at a dog, cat, or horse. In some places dogs are worked very hard each day and fed just enough to keep them alive. China raises dogs for eating. I can just see people in America harnessing up their fat canines and expecting them to run most of the day. Or eating a Pug Pie!

People's treatment or handling of their animals is largely relative to culture. The Amish, I'm sure, feed, water and provide medical care for their horses, if only to make sure they are operating properly for the next work day or trip to town. I don't think they are either good or bad, really....just different. And that's not a bad thing. I'm sure they view our keeping our animals long past their usefulness as being quite wasteful of time and money. Maybe time and money that could be better spent on their family's medical care, or something equally as costly.

 

[Colored Egg Farmer]

Hey I learned something interesting about the amish arround us. they do have electricity and phone service only not like us. There electricity must run from the barn to the house. And the phone must be outside. The only questionable thing about that is I sold chickens to some amish people. Very nice people. and they answered the phone almost immediatly.

 

[patandchickens]

Maybe the Amish are largely brought up to regard animals as food, or as tools.

Oh yes, absolutely. And I don't have a big problem with that, as long as they are decently-treated tools used for reasonable purposes, which I believe is generally the case.

All I meant was, it is nice to have the luxury of using actual nonsentient *tools* as some of our tools. The car doesn't really CARE if it's burning oil when you drive it around


Pat

 

[patandchickens]

Hey I learned something interesting about the amish arround us. they do have electricity and phone service only not like us. There electricity must run from the barn to the house. And the phone must be outside. The only questionable thing about that is I sold chickens to some amish people. Very nice people. and they answered the phone almost immediatly.

There are different groups of Amish (including but not limited to the Old Order - New Order distinction), but remember there are also Mennonites with whom the Amish are often confused.

They generally 'police' their own ranks quite effectively w/r/t phone-having-ness and so forth, so I think you can rest assured that whatever the tenets of the group that family belonged to, they are VERY likely to have been abiding by them


Pat

 

[Colored Egg Farmer]

actually they were from a Amish area. Every house we passed had amish. They even had an amish school house. I think i'm right in they were amish. We also have mennonites who drive to our store to buy our eggs. I have also there are black stockings

 

[mgibbzzz]

Many of the New Order Amish are allowed to have electricity IF it is part of a business, same goes for the phone. If they have a business, they will ask the bishop for approval, he prays abut it and then gives a yes or no answer. We frequently go to our amish country. They will show you their huses and how the bake and do various things around the farm. Very friendly people. They worry about outsiders influencing their younger people into leaving for more worldly things. (If they leave after baptism they are shunned by friends and family.) They live simply because that is their interpretation of the bible. My ds loves to go in the spring to see all the new babies. Whenever we go, he always manages to get a buggy ride from someone!