The most rediculas thing from economic Advisors on TV

[patandchickens]

Yeah, and it's not like our society doesn't support doing personally-difficult things sometimes... I mean, quitting smoking seems generally-accepted as an often severe test of willpower, but if you tell people you're working on it, they're usually like "way to go, hang in there, you've done so well to go a whole week without a cigarette, you can do it!".

Whereas if you tell people you're working on, say, keeping your family fed for $25 a week, or not buying any 'new' clothes or toys, there is NO comparable level of respect and support. To say the least.

In my opinion a lot of it is the legacy of long-ingrained class/culture/race distinctions, leading to a vague general feeling of "our sort of people don't *do* that sort of thing". Understandable that this can't be kicked in just a few generations... but, a problem nonetheless.

I know, I know, there is the argument that we all have to keep spending so the juggling balls will all stay up in the air and not come crashing down. But I honestly don't see how you can have substantial, lasting economic security for a *country* (or planet) if you don't have substantial lasting economic security for its individual citizens, and I just think that spending less and wanting less (which, of course, allow more savings) are a pretty basic part of substantial lasting economic security.

JMHO,

Pat

 

[Wifezilla]

there is the argument that we all have to keep spending so the juggling balls will all stay up in the air and not come crashing down. But I honestly don't see how you can have substantial, lasting economic security for a *country* (or planet) if you don't have substantial lasting economic security for its individual citizens

 

[me&thegals]

Remember, I am poor and uninsured. I have never been denied health care.

I'm glad you're getting healthcare and that your son has a full-time caregiver. May I ask how you're receiving healthcare without insurance?

How many other people are going to being the same boat?

Probably plenty.



As for me and my family, health insurance is the one thing that determines what I do for a living. AFAIK, I have about the only job that I am qualified for, that allows me to work part time and have health insurance for my family. I am now paying about 35% of the premiums, but we still get covered.


To be honest, WZ, I don't know the ins and outs of the health bill, and I should. If there hadn't been so much contention on this forum lately, I would hop off this thread and start another, but....


Pat, I just finished a couple books written by a Chinese author, and what you describe is exactly what she describes in her books. The families worked absolutely endlessly, stashing their change in dresser drawers and under the bed.

That is very admirable, and North Americans could move way more in that direction, but I doubt it was much of a life either. I think people should be able to make a decent living with health insurance and some money for savings working 40-hour work weeks.

As for the American economy, I think having an economy that depends on consumer spending is irresponsible. But it is what it is. <sounding like a broken record> I would love our economy to move towards industry that would stay on our continent, make sense, be positive, pay great wages, allow for savings for retirement, allow ALL Americans to stop spending like crazy things without collapsing the economy.

 

[Up-the-Creek]

Retirement? What is that? (Mine's in mason jars,..buried )

DH and I have both decided that there is no such thing. No matter what, we are going to be working till we kick the bucket. That is our plan. Why?? The biggest reason is because how at anytime in your life can you depend on a job or anything for that matter for retirement? SS may not even exist by the time we are old enough to "retire". Which I believe is what 72 for full retirement,...at that age why would I care anymore??? DH's job he has right now is great, not for the pay or the hours, but the healthcare. They pay full for him and the whole family, all we have to pay for is the dental and eye, which is minimal. This company has 401k and profit sharing,...The crappy part is, how can you depend on this job to be there next week or next year? We can't, and we don't. Nothing in life is definet. I have always looked at life as take the good when it is here, but do not count on it the next day. We have been years without health insurance and never seen a doctor not unless it was a must. Thank goodness there is low income clinics for that. Thank goodness for the Childrens' Health Insurance Program that our state has for lower income families. What I am saying is you have to take one day at a time and be prepared. Being prepared is living IN your means, not over extending yourself. Stay away from debt as much as possible and if you have any debt, pay it off ASAP when things are good. If spending money is what makes our economy go around,....we've been thrown from the merry go round.

 

[Big Daddy]

[To be honest, WZ, I don't know the ins and outs of the health bill, and I should. If there hadn't been so much contention on this forum lately, I would hop off this thread and start another, but....]

At this point in time even Congress doesn't know what's in the bill. Even after it gets passed we wont know whats in it. All we will know is the lies and half truths we here from all the talking heads. I sure can't understand legalese worth a darn.
You have to count on others to tell you and past experience is that they will spin it whichever way benefits them.

I hope my job holds out. I would hate to be one of the unfortunate people out there trying to get health insurance on their own. Meanwhile I have to get our credit cards paid down. We already closed all but one of them.

 

[hwillm1977]

We have been years without health insurance and never seen a doctor not unless it was a must. Thank goodness there is low income clinics for that. Thank goodness for the Childrens' Health Insurance Program that our state has for lower income families.

This would be why I don't mind paying extra taxes to cover my medical expenses... I like being able to get a yearly check up, to know that I don't have to worry about medical bills if I'm sick. If I get cancer and need to go through a year's worth of chemo and can't work, then my benefits through work pay my mortgage, and household bills, and prescriptions... my medicare covers any medical expenses.

Personally I don't find our taxes in Canada that bad, considering. Aren't Wifezilla's taxes already paying for the low income health clinics, or Children's Health Insurance Programs?

What I am saying is you have to take one day at a time and be prepared. Being prepared is living IN your means, not over extending yourself.

I think this is what people have the most problem with.... living WITHIN their means (probably not as many people on here, but just people in general)... everyone seems to think they need the biggest house they can possibly get a mortgage for, the bigger, newer cars... etc... So I'm sure many people have the appearance of having it all, but are really just one job loss away from homelessness.

Planning ahead is essential, whether you have a ton of money to do it or not... I personally don't, but I save for retirement and I put money into a savings account for emergencies... my emergency fund is only $20/paycheck, but you'd be surprised how quickly that can add up.

I do plan to retire, the earlier the better... but I'm not counting on my government to help me with that, and so for now I'm scrimping, saving, and paying off debts.

 

[me&thegals]

And it's not like a person either has health insurance or they don't and that's the end of the story. There are huge variations in the quality of the health insurance.

Some friends recently had the horror of finding out their son has cancer. He's 6 years old and the form he has is very treatable. But, they are self employed and have pretty bad insurance. I don't know the details of their insurance, but I'm assuming it's basically catastrophic. I can't think of much more catastrophic than childhood cancer, but their insurance is not going to cover a lot of his treatments. Some of the chemo injections are $4000 per "shot" or however they are administered.

So, even WITH health insurance some people are left with enormous debt.

 

[ScottSD]

At this point in time even Congress doesn't know what's in the bill. Even after it gets passed we wont know whats in it. All we will know is the lies and half truths we here from all the talking heads. I sure can't understand legalese worth a darn.

Maybe that's got something to do with it being so large?
Maybe that's got something to do with them rushing it through without even reading it?

There are plenty of other things that can be done instead of giving everyone health care....but none of those options are even being considered by the party currently in the majority.

 

[patandchickens]

That is very admirable, and North Americans could move way more in that direction, but I doubt it was much of a life either. I think people should be able to make a decent living with health insurance and some money for savings working 40-hour work weeks.

I wasn't advocating people doing it for their entire lives or long periods of time... my point was simply that if THOSe folks could save, then hardly any of US can really claim we cannot put away any money. Note that many/most of the immigrants I'm talking about ended up quite well off

Pat

 

[FarmerChick]

Immigrants were well off because they sufferend for the future generations to be "more well off"

we don't have that situation now. instant gratification is the norm here.
(even though most can't get it)