Those with children? Having some major issues!!!

[Wannabefree]

Maybe he wants YOUR attention. He does have a little brother. It's not difficult for a big brother to feel like they are left out. Plus, he did it himself, and blamed the little one, so mommy would be upset with the little brother, and maybe fuss more over him. Maybe he feels safe hurting the birds BECAUSE he knows you can "fix it."

 

[Wannabefree]

TC GREAT post! Good tips in there on possible ways to handle the situation.

 

[Denim Deb]

Personally, I have all kinds of warning bells going off in my head. Do I think he's going to turn into a serial killer? No, but I have a feeling that something is going on that is causing him to act like this. It would not hurt as a precaution to have him talk to a therapist.

 

[rhoda_bruce]

Wow!!! I'm not opposed to the idea of a therapist, but at the very least they would be punished good. And yes, that would mean I would also be punished, because it would mean enforcing certain things that would otherwise be easier for me to not enforce.
I'd explain to them, calmly that I had needed time to think of what to do about my dead birds and that I had come up with what their value is and that they would have to pay me for them and that I would accept payment in chores. Then I'd explain that in addition to being paid for my loss, I also needed to teach them that they had done wrong and I'd do that by limiting their tv time to educational programming only and perhaps religious or news, but none of their normal children's programs or movies for 2 week......this would, of course, mean no computer games. No playing with friends, neighbors or visiting anyone, including nice relatives with neat toys.

I needed to do this once, only in my 23 years as a mother. I was good and mad and very embarrassed. My kids had fought like 2 animals in a neighbors yard, rolling over each other, punching and kicking each other and rubbing mud and grass on each other like they didn't have any kind of upbringing at all. They lost all their privledges and I told my neighbors what had happened (in their absence), to explain why they couldn't go play. It was hard for all of us, but I can say that with all the time they weren't playing, they had lots of time to keep clean rooms, study, read books and help me with the chores. Also.......and I don't want this to get religious, but in my religion, when you commit a sin, you must confess and I brought my kids to the next Mass available and made sure they went to confession. Let me tell you that works better for me than anything else. They both came out crying. (Mind you I can't do that with a 4 year old though).

I don't think very many kids now a days know anything about punishments. Its not a popular thing really. Probably because the parent needs to punish their own self in order to make it work.

 

[me&thegals]

Personally, I have all kinds of warning bells going off in my head. Do I think he's going to turn into a serial killer? No, but I have a feeling that something is going on that is causing him to act like this. It would not hurt as a precaution to have him talk to a therapist.

Me, too. I think this sounds seriously disturbing. I'm not trying to be upsetting, but I think it deserves some worry. At that age (or pretty much any, except for hunting) my kids have been fascinated and nurturing of animals. I really would have strict supervision and try to figure out what is going on.

 

[so lucky]

If you can stand one more opinion: As a rule 4 year olds do not understand the concept of death, nor the ethical issues involved. He does understand that when he hurts one of the birds, you pay a lot of attention to him. Have you been busier than usual lately, to the point he may be feeling the need to do something to get you to talk to him, talk about him, think about him, react to him? It's not an actual planned course of action, but kids do what works for them, and he has learned pretty quickly what gets your attention. I wouldn't put too much importance on what excuse he gives or what he says when you question him. He is just trying to think of what you want him to say, and probably doesn't know why he did what he did. The good thing is, kids can change their behavior pretty quickly and easily. It may not take much at all to divert him. But I think I would consider an electric fence or something to keep the kids from the birds. If you have one younger than 4, you still have several years before they are responsible enough to handle tiny birds safely. It's not that they are mean; they haven't done the brain development yet to know and do the right thing. By giving them responsibility and freedom too early, you may make it harder on them to mature appropriately.
If you and the kids can see a therapist for a few sessions, they may be able to help you come up with a plan.

 

[Farmfresh]

Personally, I have all kinds of warning bells going off in my head. Do I think he's going to turn into a serial killer? No, but I have a feeling that something is going on that is causing him to act like this. It would not hurt as a precaution to have him talk to a therapist.

I agree.

I don't think this has much to do with a death issue per say, but I DO see this as a desperate cry for attention and help. Something in this kiddo's world has changed and he is stressing out from it. I would open up and really try to tune in to him. See if you can find out what is different.

My gut says something has him very scared. Possibly someone has threatened to hurt or kill him. Be very aware of any physical changes. I would have concerns of someone possibly being physically inappropriate with this child. I have had years of experience with children with behavior disorders and something extreme like this almost always has a deep dark secret attached to it.

 

[pinkfox]

i agree with deb here.

i do NOT think hes a serial killer in training...he displays remorce of some kind and the kids that go on to excalate this stuff dont feel that remourse, the dont have fear of "being caught" ect...

but i do think there is something going on in this young mans mind that needs an impartial 3rd parties imput...
some kind of insecurity mabe...

from the sounds of it...

he is afraid of death...but hes "testing" to see if mommy can fix it every time...thus far youve been able to save some...hes seen this and by seeing you "fix" these things it mabe makes him feel more secure that you can "fix" him if something bad happens ect.
But its all speculation, and i definatly think having someone more "profesional" talking to him might unlock some stuff that could explain this.

 

[moolie]

First of all :

If you can stand one more opinion: As a rule 4 year olds do not understand the concept of death, nor the ethical issues involved. He does understand that when he hurts one of the birds, you pay a lot of attention to him. Have you been busier than usual lately, to the point he may be feeling the need to do something to get you to talk to him, talk about him, think about him, react to him? It's not an actual planned course of action, but kids do what works for them, and he has learned pretty quickly what gets your attention.

I wouldn't put too much importance on what excuse he gives or what he says when you question him. He is just trying to think of what you want him to say, and probably doesn't know why he did what he did.

The good thing is, kids can change their behavior pretty quickly and easily. It may not take much at all to divert him.

But I think I would consider an electric fence or something to keep the kids from the birds. If you have one younger than 4, you still have several years before they are responsible enough to handle tiny birds safely. It's not that they are mean; they haven't done the brain development yet to know and do the right thing. By giving them responsibility and freedom too early, you may make it harder on them to mature appropriately.

If you and the kids can see a therapist for a few sessions, they may be able to help you come up with a plan.

From a developmental point of view, this is spot-on.

A four-year-old simply can't be left alone with creatures that helpless, and as an aside, shouldn't even be left alone with most dogs (there was a recent tragedy near us where a small child was killed by the family dog, a perfectly lovely dog that had never acted aggressively in the past).

Four year olds don't make much of a cause-and-effect connection to things around them, that's why you need to remind them over and over again about things. Death truly isn't a fleshed out concept at all at this age, especially if he watches a lot of cartoons--think about it, the coyote falls off a cliff and then gets right back up again and goes on chasing the roadrunner. As adults we get it, it's supposed to be funny, but to kids it is just mind boggling if they have any concept of death at all.

Also, what everyone is telling you about receiving attention is spot-on as well--it's called negative reinforcement, getting attention for doing something "bad".

So then we get to the "what should you do" about it. The negative reinforcement needs to be replaced with positive reinforcement--you need to "catch" him being good/helpful etc. and reward that behaviour with your time/attention. You also can't let him be around the animals unsupervised. At all. Or it will happen again.

YMMV, and I absolutely hate giving parenting advice on topics this serious, but this is all based on my background in education and developmental psychology and all offered freely--always remember that free advice is only worth what you paid for it, none of us is in your shoes or knows your child or the whole situation.

 

[Beekissed]

Personally, I have all kinds of warning bells going off in my head. Do I think he's going to turn into a serial killer? No, but I have a feeling that something is going on that is causing him to act like this. It would not hurt as a precaution to have him talk to a therapist.

I agree.

I don't think this has much to do with a death issue per say, but I DO see this as a desperate cry for attention and help. Something in this kiddo's world has changed and he is stressing out from it. I would open up and really try to tune in to him. See if you can find out what is different.

My gut says something has him very scared. Possibly someone has threatened to hurt or kill him. Be very aware of any physical changes. I would have concerns of someone possibly being physically inappropriate with this child. I have had years of experience with children with behavior disorders and something extreme like this almost always has a deep dark secret attached to it.

Ditto this....from a nursing point of view, this resembles a child that has been traumatized in some way, be it little or a lot.