Deflation followed by hyperinflation?

[Big Daddy]

We're not talking buy America for all businesses. If they're going to be spending billions of our money on govt projects the materials should come from America. I lived in Texas for 7 years. They don't tax income but they sure tax everything else. There has been pressure to start an income tax for 20 years now. It would be political suicide to do it though so it will never get done. The 2008 surplus in Texas is from oil revenue. You may remember the record profits the oil companies made last year. The surplus in Texas came from the pockets of the people in the the other 48 states Alaska excluded since they get their share from us too. It helps to have an oilman in the oval office too. On top of the that Uncle Sam gives the oil companies additional tax breaks. I hope Obama doesn't back off on the buy American. It's time someone helped the regular guy instead of just big money. If American corporations move overseas they should be charged tariffs for the goods they import. The real reason they move is because of the cheap labor. 50 cents an hour compared to 12.00 and hour and benefits is quite a savings. The only loser is the American in the unemployment line. Sorry no compassion for corporations from me. It's ridiculous the amount of jobs lost overseas in the name of corporate profits.

 

[CJHames]

We're not talking buy America for all businesses. If they're going to be spending billions of our money on govt projects the materials should come from America. I lived in Texas for 7 years. They don't tax income but they sure tax everything else. There has been pressure to start an income tax for 20 years now. It would be political suicide to do it though so it will never get done. The 2008 surplus in Texas is from oil revenue. You may remember the record profits the oil companies made last year. The surplus in Texas came from the pockets of the people in the the other 48 states Alaska excluded since they get their share from us too. It helps to have an oilman in the oval office too. On top of the that Uncle Sam gives the oil companies additional tax breaks. I hope Obama doesn't back off on the buy American. It's time someone helped the regular guy instead of just big money. If American corporations move overseas they should be charged tariffs for the goods they import. The real reason they move is because of the cheap labor. 50 cents an hour compared to 12.00 and hour and benefits is quite a savings. The only loser is the American in the unemployment line. Sorry no compassion for corporations from me. It's ridiculous the amount of jobs lost overseas in the name of corporate profits.

$6 billion SURPLUS. I don't need to say anything else to defend that. It speaks for itself.

Government's broke. Most States are broke. American people are on their way to being broke. But here in TX, the malls are full - and I mean full, it looks like Christmas. It's the rest of the country that is starting to drag us down.

Your oil profits claim is an interesting one. I seem to remember a story about that. "Big Oil" has the smallest percentage of Return On Investment of any industry. They also paid the highest amount of federal taxes in history. Then, after paying the government, they declare dividends and gave money back to regular folk - unlike the government - to spend or reinvest, whichever they feel is best to do. This means teachers, firemen and truck drivers, pensioners and people living in retirement facilities make us of these "gross" profits. What's left over is used by Big Oil to re-tool, to run laboratories, fund research (universities), buy equipment and employ people in some high dollar jobs.

Call me crazy, but that sounds vaguely similar to a ...... "stimulus" program. Hmmmmm.

I happen to like their program more because they aren't borrowing money from the Chinese or Saudi's and burying my kids and grandkids in debt. And Big Oil can and will get the money to people who need it (and who are counting on it ) in weeks, not years like Congress. You know what would be even better? If these dolts in Congress would let us drill for oil here and not have to send any money to Saudi Arabia until we can come up with a better solution, and brother, wind and solar power ain't it. That is a pipe dream my friend. For now anyway. We need to build nuclear plants and we need to build them yesterday. I've run the numbers. By the time I put up a wind or solar system I'll be lucky to break even on the cost vs. buying from our Co-op. By the time it would start to pay for itself it's going to break down (15-yr life span) and I'll have to come up with a huge amount of cash - again - to keep it up and running. It's a wash, at best. And 99% of the people don't have $30,000 cash up front to install a system. I want wind and solar so I can be free, not because I'm buying into this Global Climate change crap. And that's just what it is. Another Y2K scam.

Want proof? Ask any of these scientists who believe the Earth is warming if the planet has warmed in such a fashion before. Most of them will answer yes, about 10,000 years ago.

Tell me, how many cars were on the planet then? How many industrial smokestacks were on the planet then? How many people were on the planet then? I've asked a few of these scientists those questions. I always get a deer-in-the-headlights look from them. "Duhhhh, I never thought of that ....." Well of course they haven't. That's because there isn't any government funding associated with such an easy, truthful, plain-as-the-nose-on-your-face explanation.

Look, I'm sure we agree on many things ... I wish we had no need for money whatsoever. Can't stand the stuff. I can't wait until I live in a place that doesn't use it. And while I'm not a fan of huge corporations, I can't stand Unions even more than corps. But capitalism has been the best, most productive way to lift people out of poverty. It's why we have the highest standard of living in the world. Remember, our people (stupidly) camp out overnight to stand in lines to buy video games, not food. We get pissed when our cable goes out and if we have to wait for a double-double whatever from Starbucks.

But if we revert to the political ideology (protectionism) of 1929 and Hoover/FDR tactics, they will be soon enough. It didn't work then. Won't work now. And this "stimulus" plan won't work. Didn't work for Bush, won't work for BO.

Tax cuts have always worked. Always.

 

[me&thegals]

"Tax cuts have always worked. Always."

If my memory serves me well, tax cuts and rebate checks were the biggest part of Bush's plan.

 

[CJHames]

"Tax cuts have always worked. Always."

If my memory serves me well, tax cuts and rebate checks were the biggest part of Bush's plan.

Tax cuts certainly were, and at the end rebates were, too. The problem with rebates are that they are being presented to the public as a "we better do something" trick, rather than just letting us keep our money to begin with. This creates a form of panic. Maybe not like we're seeing now, but panic nonetheless. People don't spend that money, they pay down debt or save it.

I know its easy for some people, especially those on the left who are giddy that the economy is bad, to look at the current problems and blame Bush. But facts are facts. Bush inherited a slowing economy. He inherited terrorism, faced a economic challenge with 9/11, and had to fight a war. Yet despite all this, our economy was extremely strong for 6 years, close to 7 of his admin. This was due to tax cuts.

And if the likes of Rangel, Frank, Maxine Waters, Chris Dodd, etc .. would have listened to the GAO, Greenspan (this is the only defense of him I have - lol) David Walker, et al about the warning signs of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and the coming housing implosion, we wouldn't be in this mess. But everybody had to own a home. Started with Jimmy Carter in '77, continued with Clinton, and now it will be worse with Obama.

There is no question Bush made it worse this last year. Paulson and Bernanke were huge missteps. Incredibly bad choices and decisions were made. Bush has been such a failure the last 18 months he's making me miss Clinton.

But there is no question, no doubt, no historical evidence that tax cuts don't work. Economies have boomed every time it's happened, as has money coming in to the Treasury. Everyone benefits from tax cuts. The rich, the middle class, the poor, the Treasury, charities. Everyone.

To look at this evidence and deny it and impose higher taxes on a segment of society simply because they are more affluent is immoral, unfair, and just plain bad policy. Liberalism is the anthesis of "self sufficiency," isn't it? I mean isn't that why we are here at this site? To be self sufficient? To be free of tyranny and government control? Perhaps I misjudged this site. I don't want republicans or democrats running my life (or yours). I want solar and wind power to be free from the government telling me I have to keep my house at a certain temp. I want to raise my own food to be free of pesticides, herbicides, etc ... not the gov't regulation of them, etc.

Depending on someone else's tax money to live off of isn't self sufficiency. It's the exact opposite.

Hope everyone has a great Sunday.

 

[Wifezilla]

These people aren't stupid. They know history and economics. So I have boiled what they are doing down to things: they know full well what they are doing and want it to happen, or God has blinded them and is allowing judgement on America. I just don't see any other explanation.

I am still voting for stupid. They think that reality doesn't apply to them, or they can get theirs and get out before everything collapses.

 

[CJHames]

These people aren't stupid. They know history and economics. So I have boiled what they are doing down to things: they know full well what they are doing and want it to happen, or God has blinded them and is allowing judgement on America. I just don't see any other explanation.

I am still voting for stupid. They think that reality doesn't apply to them, or they can get theirs and get out before everything collapses.

I had a good friend who was a Navy SEAL. He used to say "never believe in conspiracies when stupidity will suffice for an answer."

 

[sylvie]

I've run the numbers. By the time I put up a wind or solar system I'll be lucky to break even on the cost vs. buying from our Co-op. By the time it would start to pay for itself it's going to break down (15-yr life span) and I'll have to come up with a huge amount of cash - again - to keep it up and running. It's a wash, at best. Always.

Not necessarily. There are panels with 25 year life spans. The warranties indicate a solar panel's life span. A 25 year manufacturer guaranteed product is what to look for, not the dealer warranty.
With funding infused into the solar program that number could be improved significantly.
NASA has developed a small solar panel that actually grows itself for use in space. It's about 7"x9" and has better energy output than the larger panels available to the homeowner. The break down by UV's would be eliminated or offset by the panel's ability to grow.

 

[me&thegals]

Depending on someone else's tax money to live off of isn't self sufficiency. It's the exact opposite.

This point has come up in one form or another at different times on this site. Self sufficiency does not preclude looking out for others who are less able to look out for themselves.

Not everyone is here to escape gov't tyranny. Many are here to save money, learn new skills, socialize with like-minded people, pass on knowledge.

I imagine we could argue politics until blue in the face (or fingers? ), but the economy seems a bit complex to be able to definitively fingerpoint one spot as being that spot responsible for our current situation. Plus, if you're going to count Carter, Clinton and Obama, better include all the other presidents and Congresses in between who had chances to regulate Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac and didn't.

Anyway, I was only pointing out that while you claim "Tax cuts work, ALWAYS," they didn't last time. And many would argue that Bush didn't "have" to fight one of these wars, the one that has added incredibly to the nation's debt. Also wondering where you've been meeting "those on the left who are giddy that the economy is bad." Those on the left that I have met are heartsick at the state of our nation (take your pick: economy, world relations, pollution, terrorism, civil rights) and just hoping for something to turn around ASAP.

 

[On Our own]

OK I just bout spit coffee all over my computer laughing at the oil companies paying dividends and giving money back to regular folk!! Sorry, that one had me rolling.

People who own stock by and large are not regular folk. Please understand I own quite a chunk of oil stock. Why? because it is profitable for me to own it. But, during the last ten years the companies have all fallen into the same trap: they maximize profits at the expense of capital investments so now they are starting to find that bill coming due. Many refineries in particular are facing significant problems due to lack of maintenance.

And then there is the how much they helped after the hurricanes myth. That one is my personal fav. You should hear those stories, and then check the companies books about who worked and what they got paid and how much of that money those firms got back from FEMA. Its a real eye opener. Much of this material is not available unless you own stock and do the work.

This fiasco has been years in the making and the only thing CJHames said that I agree with 100% is the never think conspiracy when stupidity will do part. There is not one person in power now or in the past who caused all of this. If you could put it on pne person's head it would be Milton Friedman. And most people have never heard of him.


Oh, BTW the Y2K scam was not a scam for my industry. It didn't happen because we fixed it. It had to be hyped or no one would have fixed that which did need to be fixed. It is hard to prove to some one what did not happen.

 

[CJHames]

OK I just bout spit coffee all over my computer laughing at the oil companies paying dividends and giving money back to regular folk!! Sorry, that one had me rolling.

People who own stock by and large are not regular folk. Please understand I own quite a chunk of oil stock. Why? because it is profitable for me to own it.

I rest my case. Thank you.