Food Shortage

[Old Sew'n'Sew]

Now I'm afraid and I don't even own a pressure canner.

 

[Wildsky]

Maybe the can-a-phobics need their own thread!

I'm just thrilled to bits I'm not alone!

 

[DrakeMaiden]

DM, I think botulism toxin can hang around even after heat kills the bacteria. Not sure, though.

Actually, I wrote about this in another thread a few weeks ago. Botulism toxin is destroyed by cooking at a moderate temperature. The botulism organism requires higher heat to kill.

 

[VickiLynn]

Maybe the can-a-phobics need their own thread!

The bookkeeper where I used to work slipped on her wet kitchen floor and broke her neck. That is why I no longer wash my kitchen floor. Or take a shower. Or cross the street.

Just kidding!

THANK YOU for that
I just ordered a new pressure canner, thinking I might get brave enough to try it sometime this summer, but reading this thread was making my nervous.

 

[~gd]

DM, I think botulism toxin can hang around even after heat kills the bacteria. Not sure, though.

Actually, I wrote about this in another thread a few weeks ago. Botulism toxin is destroyed by cooking at a moderate temperature. The botulism organism requires higher heat to kill.

Right on! but the spores require the higher heat than both of the above. The spores can start up again in the jar and produce toxin in the canned product, Do you cook everything you get from a can to a "moderate temperature" to denature the toxin after you open the can? The moderate heat is 60C or 140F! -from your wickipedia reference.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

~gd: I have only ever worried about commercial cans of beans that I have stored for too long in poor conditions, and the cans were dented. I boil the beans with a lid on for at least 15 min, which is the recommended procedure if you suspect botulism toxin. That is what I would do with an iffy item that I personally canned too, but I have yet to experience such a situation.

 

[~gd]

~gd: I have only ever worried about commercial cans of beans that I have stored for too long in poor conditions, and the cans were dented. I boil the beans with a lid on for at least 15 min, which is the recommended procedure if you suspect botulism toxin. That is what I would do with an iffy item that I personally canned too, but I have yet to experience such a situation.

Well you know the risk is small to start with, and I have no problem with that. But the risk is there!

 

[patandchickens]

I am a bit leery of that wikipedia reference to "denatured at 60C/145F". I would want to see the original paper cited (but can't since I don't have journal access) and see what EXACTLY they are describing. I am concerned that it may refer to rendering medical-purpose purified botulinum toxin insufficiently-active for medical use, rather than food safety precautions which may well not be the same.

The recommendation has always been (and if you look at extension services etc, still is) that you need a hard boil for 10-20 minutes to be reasonably sure of having gotten rid of the botulinum toxin -- and that's only for mildly-contaminated food, you would not want to count on it for something that C. botulinum has really 'gone to town' in. (Enough residual toxin could remain to still cause problems, as the denaturing is a percentage type issue)

So I would be real careful about anyone extrapolating too far from a secondhand comment in a wikipedia article to "oh, you don't even need to boil botulinum-contaminated food to make it safe to eat" :/

Just sayin',

Pat

 

[SKR8PN]

All you can-a-phobics out there that are afraid of explosions.... Do you realize that your water pressure coming out of your tap is somewhere around 30-40 lbs of pressure?? Your hot water heater has that much pressure in it 24/7......they VERY rarely, if ever, explode because of the pressure relief valves. Your pressure canner has the same safety devices biult in to them as well.

Just sayin'.......

 

[DrakeMaiden]

So I would be real careful about anyone extrapolating too far from a secondhand comment in a wikipedia article to "oh, you don't even need to boil botulinum-contaminated food to make it safe to eat" :/

No, I had read this in the Encyclopedia of Country Living when I discovered these cans of beans that I felt I should eat, but was a little leary about. I didn't say you shouldn't boil suspicious food. I said that "you should boil it with a lid on it for at least 15 min." Maybe it was my comment about moderate temperature that upset you. My definition of moderate might not be the same as yours. I was using boiling as my definition of moderate (compared to baking in the oven at 450 F).