Greenhouse VS Rootcellar

[k0xxx]

Koxxx - we have seen those kits as well and have been putting some thought into them. I was not aware that they needed to be braced for anything stronger than 30mph. That will definately be a problem come hurricane season.
Nikki

Nikki

Another recent development with these kits is that some people, especially in very sunny climates like say, Arizona, are experiencing UV damage to the panels.

Here is a link to an excellent Blog describing the kit's structural deficiencies and how to mitigate them.

This is where I first learned of the problems with the kits. I still believe that the kits may be a viable way to go, providing you know the problems and how to fix them.

Since we would not need the greenhouse during the summer months, we have been considering covering it with a tarp during that time, to lessen the effects of UV.

We'll need to do a bit more pondering before we decide what to do.

Mark

 

[sylvie]

Koxxx - we have seen those kits as well and have been putting some thought into them. I was not aware that they needed to be braced for anything stronger than 30mph. That will definately be a problem come hurricane season.
Nikki

Nikki

Another recent development with these kits is that some people, especially in very sunny climates like say, Arizona, are experiencing UV damage to the panels.

Here is a link to an excellent Blog describing the kit's structural deficiencies and how to mitigate them.

This is where I first learned of the problems with the kits. I still believe that the kits may be a viable way to go, providing you know the problems and how to fix them.

Since we would not need the greenhouse during the summer months, we have been considering covering it with a tarp during that time, to lessen the effects of UV.

We'll need to do a bit more pondering before we decide what to do.

Mark

I spent a few years working at a large commercial greenhouse. We put shade cloth on top. Sun loving plants got plenty of sun and we were protected to the point of never tanning or getting sunburn. Another green house had stronger shade cloth for plants requiring partial to mostly shade. This may prevent the UV degradation of the panels and could be left on year round. Better looking than a tarp.

 

[patandchickens]

an interesting point with temp and drainage. I think we can safely work aroung those with making sure we go 10 ft deep? If I understand correctly, that's the desired depth for someone like me in a warmer area?

For a rootcellar you mean? I shouldn't think so (mind I am theorizing here, I don't actually know)... that should give you stable-ish temperatures of like 55-60 degrees but that is not cold enough to be a rootcellar for very much, or at least not a very GOOD rootcellar. No?

At your latitude you should (?) be able to run a solar dehydrator fairly effectively... have you considered dehydrating apples at least and maybe some other things? I know it's not the same as fresh but they work pretty ok for baked compotes etc and still good for snacks.

It also had not occured to me that overheating in the day and cooling at night could be a problem. I had assumed there would be vents in the ceiling that we could open if it became to warm.

I am not sure whether you're talking about rootcellar or greenhouse here? If rootcellar, vents won't help you when air temperature is higher than desired cellar temperature, which will be much of the time (winter nights will help bring things down, of course, but by then you may not have much stored food still 'good')

If you mean for a greenhouse, venting is a real issue. You do NOT want manual venting unless you are home all day every day during the whole of greenhouse-using season -- a sunny hour in an otherwise-cloudy day can send temperatures *soaring* if vents are not opened. Automatic vents are the way to go if you are serious about having a greenhouse, but the relatively inexpensive options are still not all that adequate or reliable (although having quite a lot of thermal mass as 'ballast' helps).

Really the best system AFAIK (having grown up with a greenhouse, and dealt with several over the years tho none of them my own) is a thermostatically operated ventilation fan, in conjunction with auto vent openers. These things start to ka-ching their way upwards pretty fast though.

Shade cloth (I'd say 'or whitewashing' if this were a 'real' glass greenhouse) will be awwwwfully valuable as the sun gets higher in the sky and the days longer, if you are still using the greenhouse at that point.

The difficulty with inexpensive greenhouses is that they get too cold at night to grow very much in the winter, require a lot of management to prevent them getting too hot in the daytime too (year-round), and are often nearly useless during the summer because unless specifically designed for summer use and located in the right climate and site there is a real limit to how much you can limit its becoming an oven.

(p.s. though, I have heard of people using late-summer greenhouses as the world's biggest dehydrator!)

IMO the more modest your expectations for your greenhouse (like 'I will grow lettuce and spinach and suchlike in there for a couple months in the fall and a couple months in late winter to spring') and the more time you have to hang around the house adjusting vents and fans according to sudden weather changes, the happier you will be with a modestly-priced greenhouse kit.

Good luck,

Pat

 

[me&thegals]

Here's something to consider: Grow cold-hardy vegetables in the greenhouse. That gives you loads of root veggies, brassicas and greens that can take the cold even if it dips to freezing temps for a bit. But, most of them can also take some heat okay, too.

 

[Beekissed]

I like Free's notion of a greenhouse on top of a cellar! Sort of like the old cellar houses, like mine, but a greenhouse. Space saving and very efficient, I would say.

 

[k0xxx]

As far as night time cooling in a greenhouse, I have read where barrels of water are placed in the greenhouse. They absorb the warmth during the day, and release it at night. I don't know how effective it would be, but it may help moderate temperatures in a small greenhouse.

I have been also looking at the smaller green houses offered by Northern Tools. However, the larger size, and especially the double doors on the ones from Harbor Freight, make them so much more attractive for my needs. I would hate to shell out $800, plus all of the added money and effort to strengthen it, if the panels are going to die a premature UV death.

 

[sylvie]

Don't forget vertical growing The folks I heard about were using 3' lengths of house gutter suspended on ropes for an additional 3 levels of growing. The width and depth of the gutters are perfect for growing greens. Then, as they are watered, any drip through waters the greens below.

I like this idea and have not read of it before. Thanks

 

[Iceblink]

Greenhouse all the way! Spiders and bugs and mice get into basements and cellars and creep me out! Plus, they are so dark and gloomy.

I am originally from Western Washington where it is always dark and gloomy, so now I crave sunlight constantly.

Plus, there are a lot of other uses for a greenhouse besides growing plants. I have read about people overwintering their worm bins in greenhouses to keep them from freezing. People brood chicks in them in the spring. It could also be a fun 'guest room' for the right guest/season.

 

[me&thegals]

Plus, it would be just too cool to sit in the greenhouse in January sub-zero weather, in a hammock, sipping cold lemonade

 

[Big Daddy]

We have a green house we bought from a commercial operation that went out of business. It's the hoop type. It's about 9' high and 24' wide, covered in the special high strength plastic sheeting. We use it to protect our tomatoes from hail. Both ends are open during the summer. It could be enclosed and heated during the winter but the cost would be ridiculous. So we just use it for tomatoes. During the winter the chickens use it to stay out of the wind. We get winds in the 60 to 80 range sometimes and it has held together so far.

Anybody interested in buying a greenhouse. They are very expensive. The film used to cover them is expensive, Polycarbonate sheeting is around 100.00 per 4x8 sheet and that doesn't include shipping. Obviously a lot of stuff can be home made but it still gets expensive. Like Pat said temps can get real high. Ours is open on both ends and there is still about a 10 degree difference. If we closed it with no ventilation the difference would probably be about 30 degrees. That will kill everything in 1 day. Our house originally had a misting system and a huge fan on one end to draw air through an 8'x8' swamp cooler type frame. It also came with a huge natural gas heater that was rated at 140,000 BTU. Bet that sucker used some gas.