Milk not curdling- I think it's GMO related

Blaundee

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I was raised with dairy goats, and we had a LOT of milk every day... once we had our fill and had our cheese & yogurt and ice cream, etc, we would give milk to the dogs, cats, and clabbered milk to the chickens- we'd set some milk out on the counter and it would clabber within a day or 2, without adding anything to it. We have always fed the same brand of sweet feed, and that was the only grain our goats got- they also got alfalfa hay and all the browse they wanted.

Once us kids moved out, Mom only had a couple of goats around, so just had a little bit of milk. About 5 years ago, Mom started noticing that the milk wouldn't clabber- it could sit out on the counter for a week and it wouldnt clabber- and she was still feeding the goats the exact same as all the years before. Around this same time, MIL got a milk cow and we were getting all of our milk from her- when there would be extra, I'd set it out to clabber it for the chickens, and it would not clabber. The milk would stay good tasting for several days on the counter!!! And this is ALL raw milk. MIL was feeding her milk cow the same brand of sweet feed as Mom fed her goats. We also haven't been able to make good yogurt like we did before 5 years ago.

I asked SIL if her milk clabbers, and it doesn't (Mom, MIL, and I live in the same town, SIL is in anohter state)- she too can't make good yogurt without putting rennet in it.

Mom and I started talking about it last week, and I am not sure but I think it's because the corn in their sweet feed is GMO. I am going to call the company on Monday and see if they know if they use GMO corn- until then I'll assume they do. We are going to try to find a sweet feed that doesn't use GMO corn, or switch to some other grain that isn't GMO (oats aren't GMO yet, are they?).

I am NOT trying to start anything here, no bashing or flaming or name calling PLEASE- i just want to let everyone know our experiences and see if anyone else out there has noticed this. SILs goats are in no way related to Mom's, and have never even been in the same state as each other, and Mom has noticed this on ALL of her goats within the last 5 years, related or not, so it must be feed related.

ETA- I believe it's GMO related because the GMO corn is designed to be resistant to bacteria, etc. This is what the milk is displaying, so.... 2+2=?
 

ThrottleJockey

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IDK but the ants won't eat sugar any more either...I've noticed this for several years and often wondered myself. They literally avoid it like the plague.
 

tortoise

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ThrottleJockey said:
IDK but the ants won't eat sugar any more either...I've noticed this for several years and often wondered myself. They literally avoid it like the plague.
Maybe they're not "sugar ants"?
 

Blaundee

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ThrottleJockey said:
IDK but the ants won't eat sugar any more either...I've noticed this for several years and often wondered myself. They literally avoid it like the plague.
I haven't noticed... we dont really have too many ants, except for big red ones that are really good at staying outside. I'll try it this spring to see what they do with it. My chickens eat the cracked corn last out of their poultry scratch and sometimes wont eat the cracked corn at all, when they used to eat the corn first... very strange.
 

ThrottleJockey

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tortoise said:
ThrottleJockey said:
IDK but the ants won't eat sugar any more either...I've noticed this for several years and often wondered myself. They literally avoid it like the plague.
Maybe they're not "sugar ants"?
So then you're saying that the ants, after 40 years here, all of a sudden just stopped being what they are and eating what they've eaten because of their nonscientific name? There are three types of ants here in abundance and have been my whole life. All three have been drawn to and eaten sugar my entire life. For the last 4 years I have noticed that they will no longer eat and are no longer attracted to sugar. If I sprinkle it on the floor or counter, it repels them and they travel around it. I really don't expect to be spoken to like I'm an idiot. Have I ever posted anything that would lead you to believe that I'm stupid or too lazy to look beyond the end of my nose, or in any other way deficient mentally or physically?
 

~gd

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Blaundee said:
I was raised with dairy goats, and we had a LOT of milk every day... once we had our fill and had our cheese & yogurt and ice cream, etc, we would give milk to the dogs, cats, and clabbered milk to the chickens- we'd set some milk out on the counter and it would clabber within a day or 2, without adding anything to it. We have always fed the same brand of sweet feed, and that was the only grain our goats got- they also got alfalfa hay and all the browse they wanted.

Once us kids moved out, Mom only had a couple of goats around, so just had a little bit of milk. About 5 years ago, Mom started noticing that the milk wouldn't clabber- it could sit out on the counter for a week and it wouldnt clabber- and she was still feeding the goats the exact same as all the years before. Around this same time, MIL got a milk cow and we were getting all of our milk from her- when there would be extra, I'd set it out to clabber it for the chickens, and it would not clabber. The milk would stay good tasting for several days on the counter!!! And this is ALL raw milk. MIL was feeding her milk cow the same brand of sweet feed as Mom fed her goats. We also haven't been able to make good yogurt like we did before 5 years ago.

I asked SIL if her milk clabbers, and it doesn't (Mom, MIL, and I live in the same town, SIL is in anohter state)- she too can't make good yogurt without putting rennet in it.

Mom and I started talking about it last week, and I am not sure but I think it's because the corn in their sweet feed is GMO. I am going to call the company on Monday and see if they know if they use GMO corn- until then I'll assume they do. We are going to try to find a sweet feed that doesn't use GMO corn, or switch to some other grain that isn't GMO (oats aren't GMO yet, are they?).

I am NOT trying to start anything here, no bashing or flaming or name calling PLEASE- i just want to let everyone know our experiences and see if anyone else out there has noticed this. SILs goats are in no way related to Mom's, and have never even been in the same state as each other, and Mom has noticed this on ALL of her goats within the last 5 years, related or not, so it must be feed related.

ETA- I believe it's GMO related because the GMO corn is designed to be resistant to bacteria, etc. This is what the milk is displaying, so.... 2+2=?
I could find no GMO Corn that is designed to resist bacteria [ herbicidal and insecticidal effects only] frankly it wouldn't be much good for animal feed since all animals use bacteria to help digest food. Might I suggest that you try using a live culture yorgut to start the clabber reaction. It is rare but sometimes the lacto bacteria dies off in a household and it needs to be reseaded. There was a famous brewery in Belgum (SP?) That lost its flavor that was caused by the wild lacto bacteria in order to get it back they cultured their old stock of beer and sprayed their brewery with it. It worked!
 

Blaundee

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~gd said:
Blaundee said:
I was raised with dairy goats, and we had a LOT of milk every day... once we had our fill and had our cheese & yogurt and ice cream, etc, we would give milk to the dogs, cats, and clabbered milk to the chickens- we'd set some milk out on the counter and it would clabber within a day or 2, without adding anything to it. We have always fed the same brand of sweet feed, and that was the only grain our goats got- they also got alfalfa hay and all the browse they wanted.

Once us kids moved out, Mom only had a couple of goats around, so just had a little bit of milk. About 5 years ago, Mom started noticing that the milk wouldn't clabber- it could sit out on the counter for a week and it wouldnt clabber- and she was still feeding the goats the exact same as all the years before. Around this same time, MIL got a milk cow and we were getting all of our milk from her- when there would be extra, I'd set it out to clabber it for the chickens, and it would not clabber. The milk would stay good tasting for several days on the counter!!! And this is ALL raw milk. MIL was feeding her milk cow the same brand of sweet feed as Mom fed her goats. We also haven't been able to make good yogurt like we did before 5 years ago.

I asked SIL if her milk clabbers, and it doesn't (Mom, MIL, and I live in the same town, SIL is in anohter state)- she too can't make good yogurt without putting rennet in it.

Mom and I started talking about it last week, and I am not sure but I think it's because the corn in their sweet feed is GMO. I am going to call the company on Monday and see if they know if they use GMO corn- until then I'll assume they do. We are going to try to find a sweet feed that doesn't use GMO corn, or switch to some other grain that isn't GMO (oats aren't GMO yet, are they?).

I am NOT trying to start anything here, no bashing or flaming or name calling PLEASE- i just want to let everyone know our experiences and see if anyone else out there has noticed this. SILs goats are in no way related to Mom's, and have never even been in the same state as each other, and Mom has noticed this on ALL of her goats within the last 5 years, related or not, so it must be feed related.

ETA- I believe it's GMO related because the GMO corn is designed to be resistant to bacteria, etc. This is what the milk is displaying, so.... 2+2=?
I could find no GMO Corn that is designed to resist bacteria [ herbicidal and insecticidal effects only] frankly it wouldn't be much good for animal feed since all animals use bacteria to help digest food. Might I suggest that you try using a live culture yorgut to start the clabber reaction. It is rare but sometimes the lacto bacteria dies off in a household and it needs to be reseaded. There was a famous brewery in Belgum (SP?) That lost its flavor that was caused by the wild lacto bacteria in order to get it back they cultured their old stock of beer and sprayed their brewery with it. It worked!
The yogurt IS made with a live culture added to it, just as we did for over 20 years, and it will not set up like it should unless you add rennet, vinegar, or lemon juice. I'm talking about setting milk on the countertop for a couple of days, even a week, and it wont go bad at room temperature in the summer, when it DID for over 20 years. It has only been doing this for around 5 years. It does not make any sense that it would be from not having any wild bacteria around the house, ESPECIALLY since it is happening with ME, my MOM, MIL, AND SIL- SIL is in Colorado. I live 1/4 mile from MIL, and Mom is 2 miles away from us.
 

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ThrottleJockey said:
tortoise said:
ThrottleJockey said:
IDK but the ants won't eat sugar any more either...I've noticed this for several years and often wondered myself. They literally avoid it like the plague.
Maybe they're not "sugar ants"?
So then you're saying that the ants, after 40 years here, all of a sudden just stopped being what they are and eating what they've eaten because of their nonscientific name? There are three types of ants here in abundance and have been my whole life. All three have been drawn to and eaten sugar my entire life. For the last 4 years I have noticed that they will no longer eat and are no longer attracted to sugar. If I sprinkle it on the floor or counter, it repels them and they travel around it. I really don't expect to be spoken to like I'm an idiot. Have I ever posted anything that would lead you to believe that I'm stupid or too lazy to look beyond the end of my nose, or in any other way deficient mentally or physically?
I'm suggesting that in 40 years you may have seen more than three of the 12,000 species of ants. Perhaps a very similar species has moved in with differing nutritional needs. I'm suggesting that ants feed according to the nutritional needs of the colony. Perhaps they've stockpiled an excess of sugar and are looking for protein-based foods. I'm suggesting the possibility that the sugar is unchanged and that there are multiple logical hypotheses that could be investigated (if a person cared to).


"Stupid" or "lazy" doesn't bother me. Defensive though... defensive is interesting. It reveals the truth a person wishes to hide.
 

ThrottleJockey

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tortoise said:
ThrottleJockey said:
tortoise said:
Maybe they're not "sugar ants"?
So then you're saying that the ants, after 40 years here, all of a sudden just stopped being what they are and eating what they've eaten because of their nonscientific name? There are three types of ants here in abundance and have been my whole life. All three have been drawn to and eaten sugar my entire life. For the last 4 years I have noticed that they will no longer eat and are no longer attracted to sugar. If I sprinkle it on the floor or counter, it repels them and they travel around it. I really don't expect to be spoken to like I'm an idiot. Have I ever posted anything that would lead you to believe that I'm stupid or too lazy to look beyond the end of my nose, or in any other way deficient mentally or physically?
I'm suggesting that in 40 years you may have seen more than three of the 12,000 species of ants. Perhaps a very similar species has moved in with differing nutritional needs. I'm suggesting that ants feed according to the nutritional needs of the colony. Perhaps they've stockpiled an excess of sugar and are looking for protein-based foods. I'm suggesting the possibility that the sugar is unchanged and that there are multiple logical hypotheses that could be investigated (if a person cared to).


"Stupid" or "lazy" doesn't bother me. Defensive though... defensive is interesting. It reveals the truth a person wishes to hide.
No, it reveals that I'm not in a good mood.
 

~gd

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Blaundee said:
~gd said:
Blaundee said:
I was raised with dairy goats, and we had a LOT of milk every day... once we had our fill and had our cheese & yogurt and ice cream, etc, we would give milk to the dogs, cats, and clabbered milk to the chickens- we'd set some milk out on the counter and it would clabber within a day or 2, without adding anything to it. We have always fed the same brand of sweet feed, and that was the only grain our goats got- they also got alfalfa hay and all the browse they wanted.

Once us kids moved out, Mom only had a couple of goats around, so just had a little bit of milk. About 5 years ago, Mom started noticing that the milk wouldn't clabber- it could sit out on the counter for a week and it wouldnt clabber- and she was still feeding the goats the exact same as all the years before. Around this same time, MIL got a milk cow and we were getting all of our milk from her- when there would be extra, I'd set it out to clabber it for the chickens, and it would not clabber. The milk would stay good tasting for several days on the counter!!! And this is ALL raw milk. MIL was feeding her milk cow the same brand of sweet feed as Mom fed her goats. We also haven't been able to make good yogurt like we did before 5 years ago.

I asked SIL if her milk clabbers, and it doesn't (Mom, MIL, and I live in the same town, SIL is in anohter state)- she too can't make good yogurt without putting rennet in it.

Mom and I started talking about it last week, and I am not sure but I think it's because the corn in their sweet feed is GMO. I am going to call the company on Monday and see if they know if they use GMO corn- until then I'll assume they do. We are going to try to find a sweet feed that doesn't use GMO corn, or switch to some other grain that isn't GMO (oats aren't GMO yet, are they?).

I am NOT trying to start anything here, no bashing or flaming or name calling PLEASE- i just want to let everyone know our experiences and see if anyone else out there has noticed this. SILs goats are in no way related to Mom's, and have never even been in the same state as each other, and Mom has noticed this on ALL of her goats within the last 5 years, related or not, so it must be feed related.

ETA- I believe it's GMO related because the GMO corn is designed to be resistant to bacteria, etc. This is what the milk is displaying, so.... 2+2=?
I could find no GMO Corn that is designed to resist bacteria [ herbicidal and insecticidal effects only] frankly it wouldn't be much good for animal feed since all animals use bacteria to help digest food. Might I suggest that you try using a live culture yorgut to start the clabber reaction. It is rare but sometimes the lacto bacteria dies off in a household and it needs to be reseaded. There was a famous brewery in Belgum (SP?) That lost its flavor that was caused by the wild lacto bacteria in order to get it back they cultured their old stock of beer and sprayed their brewery with it. It worked!
The yogurt IS made with a live culture added to it, just as we did for over 20 years, and it will not set up like it should unless you add rennet, vinegar, or lemon juice. I'm talking about setting milk on the countertop for a couple of days, even a week, and it wont go bad at room temperature in the summer, when it DID for over 20 years. It has only been doing this for around 5 years. It does not make any sense that it would be from not having any wild bacteria around the house, ESPECIALLY since it is happening with ME, my MOM, MIL, AND SIL- SIL is in Colorado. I live 1/4 mile from MIL, and Mom is 2 miles away from us.
Ok but before this gets too complex why have you ruled out the molasses that is in all sweet mixes and zeroed in on the corn that MAY be in the sweet mix and MAY be GMO?
Clabber is usually from Raw Milk but Yogurt reguires that the milk be heated first and then cultured. the heat process kills off compeating bacteria. Maybe your raw milk has a bacteria that beats and kills off the lactic acid producing bacteria and that acid is what converts milk to clabber or yogurt. Maybe you have discovered a new antibiotic. but I no longer care, your mind is made up.
 
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