freemotion
Food Guru
They may have a reason to get into your yard once there are a few delicious goats in there....yep, better safe than sorry. Electric is cheap, easy, you can make it invisible, and it is VERY effective.
My own goat thread-almost a goat drawing
- Thread starter Henrietta23
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- #12
Henrietta23
Yard Farmer
Agreed! They'll be on the far side of the barn from the GSDs but still. And I do have my own insane Golden Retriever who will chase a loose chicken....freemotion said:
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- #13
Henrietta23
Yard Farmer
Okay, back to the goat questions.
We are supposed to get the two Oberhasli/Saanen kids around Memorial Day. They will have just been weaned at that point. If we also get one of the Nubians currently in milk is there a chance that they will try to nurse off of her? If so we will have more work to do to create separate areas for them which could be a deterent for DH.
Next, we are looking for a hay source. How much should I buy at a time for two or three goats? (Dang, shoulda asked the vet this when we visited).
We are supposed to get the two Oberhasli/Saanen kids around Memorial Day. They will have just been weaned at that point. If we also get one of the Nubians currently in milk is there a chance that they will try to nurse off of her? If so we will have more work to do to create separate areas for them which could be a deterent for DH.
Next, we are looking for a hay source. How much should I buy at a time for two or three goats? (Dang, shoulda asked the vet this when we visited).
freemotion
Food Guru
The lactating doe will not likely allow strange kids to nurse, so you should be just fine. There will be lots of pecking order stuff, and they will steer clear of her bonking head.
How much hay you need depends on how much green stuff you have.....your pen is pretty small, no? How much browse will you be able to cut and bring in to them? That task is not just about money saved, it is really better for them if you can get some to them regularly.
I like alfalfa/grass mix for the lactating does, the whether needs to be fed carefully because of the possibility of urinary calculi. This is a reason why I don't want a wether, and yet another reason for me not to keep a buck for longer than necessary to get the job done.
My five went through almost half a bale in the winter when I had the active buck and two preggers doe, one still growing, and to keep them warm in the cold. Now the four, one preggers and one nursing, go through....um.....one flake every other day, up to two flakes a day when it rains all day. So one bale is lasting me one to three weeks or more. I have a lot of pasture, though, and there have been days already when they haven't touched the hay.
Don't get much hay....just get maybe 3-4 bales at a time for now, max. You want to be stocked up for the year with THIS year's hay, and what you buy now will be LAST year's hay. If you can't find alfalfa mix, you can feed grass hay and supplement the dairy doe with alfalfa pellets. I did this with Mya when I got her in Dec 2008.
How much hay you need depends on how much green stuff you have.....your pen is pretty small, no? How much browse will you be able to cut and bring in to them? That task is not just about money saved, it is really better for them if you can get some to them regularly.
I like alfalfa/grass mix for the lactating does, the whether needs to be fed carefully because of the possibility of urinary calculi. This is a reason why I don't want a wether, and yet another reason for me not to keep a buck for longer than necessary to get the job done.
My five went through almost half a bale in the winter when I had the active buck and two preggers doe, one still growing, and to keep them warm in the cold. Now the four, one preggers and one nursing, go through....um.....one flake every other day, up to two flakes a day when it rains all day. So one bale is lasting me one to three weeks or more. I have a lot of pasture, though, and there have been days already when they haven't touched the hay.
Don't get much hay....just get maybe 3-4 bales at a time for now, max. You want to be stocked up for the year with THIS year's hay, and what you buy now will be LAST year's hay. If you can't find alfalfa mix, you can feed grass hay and supplement the dairy doe with alfalfa pellets. I did this with Mya when I got her in Dec 2008.
- Thread starter
- #15
Henrietta23
Yard Farmer
Thanks, I will check with the vet on his source and there is someone advertising alfalfa hay locally. Is timothy considered a grass hay? Is that better for the wether? (Sorry don't have my books with me and I had a moment for research!)
Pen will be small, no pasture here. There is quite a bit they'll be able to nibble on through the fence at first but it won't last long and we may be able to do termporary fencing to allow access to other areas while supervised.
Pen will be small, no pasture here. There is quite a bit they'll be able to nibble on through the fence at first but it won't last long and we may be able to do termporary fencing to allow access to other areas while supervised.
- Thread starter
- #16
Henrietta23
Yard Farmer
Starting the shopping list. This is by no means complete and really just me rambling and starting to organize my thoughts. Feel free to add any necessities I haven't gotten around to adding because I may very well have forgotten or not thought of them!
Hay-do I want to go with grass hay to help prevent problems in the wether?
Supplements?
Goat food
Feeders and water buckets and hay racks
hoof trimmers
steel toed boots
camera
Hay-do I want to go with grass hay to help prevent problems in the wether?
Supplements?
Goat food
Feeders and water buckets and hay racks
hoof trimmers
steel toed boots
camera
freemotion
Food Guru
I don't know about the feeding routine for the males, since I don't have any, and only kept the buck for a short time. My understanding is alfalfa is good for bucks/wethers. cmjust0 writes quite a bit about it on byh, but again, not having boys, I haven't lost any brain cells on this topic. No plans to keep boys, but if for some reason I do, I know I need to research it.
For supplements, I use minerals, free choice. I used to use salt, too, not realizing that most minerals have salt in them and if you feed salt, too, they might not get enough minerals. Other supplements? Probiotics are good to have on hand, but if you ferment veggies, you have plenty on hand already.
For hoof trimming, one of those woodworking sureform cheese grater thingies is handy, too, along with the goat hoof trimmers.
For supplements, I use minerals, free choice. I used to use salt, too, not realizing that most minerals have salt in them and if you feed salt, too, they might not get enough minerals. Other supplements? Probiotics are good to have on hand, but if you ferment veggies, you have plenty on hand already.
For hoof trimming, one of those woodworking sureform cheese grater thingies is handy, too, along with the goat hoof trimmers.
- Thread starter
- #18
Henrietta23
Yard Farmer
Thanks, I'll look for more posts on it there. I thought I had read that alfalfa could cause urinary calculi in males but now I'm not sure. We still don't have a hay source lined up so we'll have to see what's available here anyway. And I should ask the vet what he is feeding.
noobiechickenlady
Almost Self-Reliant
Yes on the steel toes! Hooves HURT! Brama has a line of women's steel toe sneakers that I like, I need a new pair though...
Collars or halters for close quarters manuevering
I'm using an adjustable type dog halter on the baby, Dixie came with a collar. Never underestimate how strong a determined doe (or a baby for that matter!) can be. And they don't come with handles
Collars or halters for close quarters manuevering
I'm using an adjustable type dog halter on the baby, Dixie came with a collar. Never underestimate how strong a determined doe (or a baby for that matter!) can be. And they don't come with handles
Generally speaking, it's phosphorus that causes problems in males.. Blood phosphates, to be more specific. Extra phosphates are filtered out by the kidneys and sent into the bladder.Henrietta23 said:
Grains of pretty much any kind are PACKED FULL of phosphorus.
If the urine pH is too high (too base/not acidic enough), and/or the buck isn't drinking enough water and/or there's just a ton of phosphate in the urine, it can -- and will -- combine with ammonia and magnesium, then precipitate out into crystals of "MAP" stones...magnesium ammonium phosphate. Also known as struvite stones..
In the vast majority of cases, MAP/struvite is what urinary calculi is made of.
Now...blood calcium levels and blood phosphate levels are generally inverse; higher blood calcium means lower blood phosphate, which is a good thing. Lower blood calcium means higher blood phosphate -- not a good thing at all.
What apparently happens is that the gut only allows considerable "extra" phosphate into the bloodstream when blood calcium is low....not sure precisely how that works, but I know it's something along those lines. I had a conversation with a vet about this very subject just the other day and she said, straight up, that micro- and macro-nutrient absorption, mineral interplay, and metabolic processes of rumenants is really some of the most difficult chemistry to begin to try to understand.
I believed her, and let it go at that. I got the impression it wasn't so much that she didn't think I could "get it," but more like a white flag of surrender to my incessant questions on the subject.
Anyway, the bottom line is that the blood calcium/phosphate balance can be manipulated intentionally by making sure the animal's blood calcium levels stay up...which means feeding extra calcium...which is why proper goat feed is formulated to have at least a 2:1 Calcium
hosphorus ratio..Most alfalfa hay is about 6:1, Ca
..So...if you want your male goat's blood calcium levels to be up to help prevent urinary calculi, feeding legume or legume-mix hay (alfalfa, clover, lespedeza) is a good thing..
Or...there are always alfalfa pellets, which is what we feed our bucks in place of grain. The alfalfa pellets allow us to supplement their diet with a safe, consistent source of protein in combination with feeding el-cheapo grass hay....with which they are VERY wasteful.
It's probably also worth noting that, of all the grasses, timothy and coastal bermuda seem to have the most favorable Ca
ratios. Which is why I fricken LOVE finding clover/timothy mix hay being sold at grass-mix prices.. 
