baymule

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My opinion; I believe we are all stewards of our land. Some are better at it than others, some are destructive and some don’t care. Here on this forum we recognize that our lands are a gift to be treasured and cared for, whether a small backyard, many hundreds of acres or a pot of dirt on a windowsill. By whatever means to improve our lands that we choose to care for and improve our lands, if that method works for one and not another, that’s great for that one, and the other tries something else. It is wonderful that we can come to the FREE forum to share ideas, encourage each other, applaud success and commiserate failure.

So just what the he!! Is there to argue about anyway? Just because I may or may not use mob grazing doesn’t make it good or bad. It’s what works or doesn’t work for each of us.

A freakin ‘ WAR? Really? :lol:
 

frustratedearthmother

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@baymule I like the way you think! There is no perfect answer. What works one place may not work somewhere else. I think it's up to each individual to do what is right for them and not be discouraged from doing so.

A freakin ‘ WAR? Really? :lol:
A lot of those videos do originate in Africa where there are countless conflicts. I think maybe that was what was referred to?
 
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flowerbug

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So, are you saying that we shouldn't improve what we have now, because... some time in the future, someone will exploit it? Putting lives on the line? I really don't understand that statement either. How is managing land in a sustainable manner going to jeopardize any one's life? If anything, it will improve our national food chain. This method produces grass raised beef on land that is not profitable for mega-ag. And, it also rejuvinates land that has been raped by mega-ag.

As for the videos: they present before and after pics. You can't produce a video that presents the best day snapshot of a farm without it presenting the long term results. Fat and well fed cows, and lush pasture don't magically appear for the single day of filming. They are the result of long term good stewardship practices. These practices are working well, world wide at reversal of desertification. Recent documentaries show how desertification is being reversed in third world countries where starvation and disease are rampant: Whole villages of folks not able to grow enough to feed themselves. Dependent on meager government hand outs. By adopting mob/rotational grazing, the land is rejuvinated. They are now able to grow lush gardens, where before there was nothing but barren sand. Other documentaries: one I recall from Australia show airplane views of land which is managed with rotational pastures/mob grazing in comparison to the old standard method of running a herd of cattle or sheep on a large tract of land. The former aerial shot shows entire land holding which is GREEN, with a creek full of water (prior to change in stewardship practices, that creek bed was dry unless it was raging with flood water which stripped what remained of the sandy soil). Meanwhile, the adjacent tract of land with same waterfall is completely brown. Again, the photos show the proof. Do the same old, same old... and the results will be the same. Compare that to responsible land management, and the contrast is astounding.
no. i think what is right is to work to increase diversity, always. the more circles/cycles of predator/prey going on the better. to limit a system to herbivores and grazing misses out on the next step of cooling which a forest provides along with all the diversity that comes with a forest too. some areas should be left as tree cover or planted to restore that. you can manage it to get fruits and nuts and to plant a bunch of useful trees, vines and understory plants, but you won't get such things if those are grazed too heavily.

i'm always glad to see lands restored and growing things instead of barren yet i don't think grazing and herbivores is the only answer.
 

flowerbug

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@baymule I like the way you think! There is no perfect answer. What works one place may not work somewhere else. I think it's up to each individual to do what is right for them and not be discouraged from doing so.


A lot of those videos do originate in Africa where there are countless conflicts. I think maybe that was what was referred to?
yes, it's great to see progress and efforts towards sustainability in those places, but that does not resolve the turmoil.

unfortunately the western ideas of wealth, greed, corruption are taken as how leaders should behave. somehow we need to encourage the peoples there to fight for decent leadership so they can have some stability where efforts towards sustainability are not lost.

sadly the UN seems unable to provide help or leadership to protect peoples quickly enough.

if an area is subjected to periodic fires i think the best use of resources is to not fight the fires but to build structures the fires won't damage.
 

Beekissed

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no. i think what is right is to work to increase diversity, always. the more circles/cycles of predator/prey going on the better. to limit a system to herbivores and grazing misses out on the next step of cooling which a forest provides along with all the diversity that comes with a forest too. some areas should be left as tree cover or planted to restore that. you can manage it to get fruits and nuts and to plant a bunch of useful trees, vines and understory plants, but you won't get such things if those are grazed too heavily.

i'm always glad to see lands restored and growing things instead of barren yet i don't think grazing and herbivores is the only answer.
They don't either, which is why they no longer kill predators that prey on the livestock but keep LGDs to ward them off. In fact, Allan Savory says that's one of the main reasons why their is desertification in Africa....due to the predators being killed which would have kept the herds healthier and moving across the land. They are working with the native farmers, helping them keep and feed LGDs so they can stop killing big cat predators.

Greg Judy refuses to kill a predator on his farms and those he leases for the same reason....they all agree that the more diversity they have, the better. They are also managing the woodlands, not clearing them simply for more grazing land. They are creating silvopasture and opening up areas for new growth, not making it all into graze, but keeping dedicated wood lots for the wildlife. Since doing all the things they've been doing, the wildlife have more water during drought, more and better food supplies and that serves the predators as well. They are seeing more wildlife, not less, healthier specimens, and more diversity overall.

some areas should be left as tree cover or planted to restore that. you can manage it to get fruits and nuts and to plant a bunch of useful trees, vines and understory plants, but you won't get such things if those are grazed too heavily.
Are you sure we all watched the same videos? They simply aren't "grazing too heavily".....they are grazing intensely, in a closely packed herd, then moving the stock. This gives the land rest periods of 30-60 days, allowing the grass to recover and even flourish from the manure and urine, as well as the churning of the hooves.

In Africa some of the places they are grazing gets resting periods of several months. As a result~and they show all the before and after pics~there are more trees, more shrubs, more grass, more diversity of species of plant and animal, etc. They have more retention of rainfall, the animals all have more watering holes now and the "cooling" process is in active effect.

In fact, the reason they are doing all of this is to restore the Earth's covering of soil and plants so as to provide more humidity and cooling action. They are trying actively to lessen the effects of the rise in global temperatures in this manner. It's repeated over and over in all the vids I've posted here, so I don't see how anyone could have missed it if they watched them all the way through.
 

wyoDreamer

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I was happy to see that the "Food Stamps" system in the US (now called SNAP, I guess) now includes the purchase of seeds and plants for the production of food. Not sure how many on the SNAP program will take advantage of it, but at least the idea is there.
 

Beekissed

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I was happy to see that the "Food Stamps" system in the US (now called SNAP, I guess) now includes the purchase of seeds and plants for the production of food. Not sure how many on the SNAP program will take advantage of it, but at least the idea is there.
Me too! They also allow them to use that funding at farmer's markets too now, which is GREAT.
 

flowerbug

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They don't either, which is why they no longer kill predators that prey on the livestock but keep LGDs to ward them off. In fact, Allan Savory says that's one of the main reasons why their is desertification in Africa....due to the predators being killed which would have kept the herds healthier and moving across the land. They are working with the native farmers, helping them keep and feed LGDs so they can stop killing big cat predators.

Greg Judy refuses to kill a predator on his farms and those he leases for the same reason....they all agree that the more diversity they have, the better. They are also managing the woodlands, not clearing them simply for more grazing land. They are creating silvopasture and opening up areas for new growth, not making it all into graze, but keeping dedicated wood lots for the wildlife. Since doing all the things they've been doing, the wildlife have more water during drought, more and better food supplies and that serves the predators as well. They are seeing more wildlife, not less, healthier specimens, and more diversity overall.



Are you sure we all watched the same videos? They simply aren't "grazing too heavily".....they are grazing intensely, in a closely packed herd, then moving the stock. This gives the land rest periods of 30-60 days, allowing the grass to recover and even flourish from the manure and urine, as well as the churning of the hooves.

In Africa some of the places they are grazing gets resting periods of several months. As a result~and they show all the before and after pics~there are more trees, more shrubs, more grass, more diversity of species of plant and animal, etc. They have more retention of rainfall, the animals all have more watering holes now and the "cooling" process is in active effect.

In fact, the reason they are doing all of this is to restore the Earth's covering of soil and plants so as to provide more humidity and cooling action. They are trying actively to lessen the effects of the rise in global temperatures in this manner. It's repeated over and over in all the vids I've posted here, so I don't see how anyone could have missed it if they watched them all the way through.
yes, i've seen the vids and watched hundreds more besides. you are assuming i've not been studying this kind of topic or the many related topics for a long time.

yes, we need predators returned to the wild lands to encourage the group behaviors in herds of animals that were common before. i would also love to see bison herds able to freely roam the west again, but that isn't too likely to happen, yet it sure would be a better way to have the animals than having them penned up on feedlots.

i don't think you understand my points and you think i'm saying that mob grazing or rotational grazing is bad. i'm not. i just don't think it is the ONLY answer to desertification as presented by Alan Savory. there are other efforts which work to restore lands and forests.
 

bambi

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Bee, you get all my bonus points today. Excellent post about the current state of affairs, and where this world is heading.
I do agree with you. I respect Bee and have followed her for some time, just don't post much. We can all learn from one another and with this, you glean from others. God, does not make only one right way he provides us with different ideas and different paths so we can learn from each other from this wonderful place we call home. I have made many mistakes in my adventure on this earth and some techniques I use work and others that worked for some did not work for me but I learn and respect others. Boy, I hope this makes sense LOL.
 
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