Solar Forum Trolls of The Energy Industry.

[Nifty]

I paid for out for my PV system (didn't do a lease, etc.) and am very happy with it. I own all the carbon credits for my system and have the signed paperwork proving that I do.

Based on our electricity usage and the super high tiered electricity rates in CA, we should break even in about 8 - 10 years... possibly even sooner if electricity prices keep going up. With all the federal and state credits/rebates we received, it actually ends up being a pretty good investment, especially when you factor in the volatility of other investments.

All my calculations, etc. are here: http://www.nifty-stuff.com/solar-panels-energy-part-1.php

Oh, and I'm also very glad to be grid-tied. Batteries are terribly expensive, and I like being able to use the grid to take what I overproduce in the Summer in exchange for what we underproduce in the Winter.

 

[lwheelr]

Selling back to the Power company is always a losing proposition. They buy it from you at wholesale rates, and sell it back to you at retail rates. Not much of an efficient "storage system".

 

[Nifty]

That doesn't really apply to me since I don't "sell it" to them. I get a credit against future usage. If I produce 1,000 Kwh more than I use during the Summer, then use 1,000 Kwh more than I produce in the Winter, I break even for the year.

Even if it worked like you say; buy high - sell low, I'd still wager that using the grid as a storage system ends up being a much cheaper and easier solution in the long run than battery storage. I'd be happy to review any data that shows and compares the costs and inefficiencies of both systems.

Also, keep in mind that for most people in an urban environment, like where I live, a PV system is not designed to completely zero out your electric bill, but to keep you out of the higher tiers. No PV system can compete with $0.11 Kwh electricity. It is the higher $0.50 Kwh electricity we're trying to eliminate.

Some people will pay the extra money to go 100% solar, but they will have a much longer break even. Usually people choose this route for reasons other than financial.

My decision to go solar was mostly financial and also because I've always been in love with photovoltaics. I also like the idea of a large percentage of our energy use coming from a renewable system.

 

[Nifty]

Oh cool! This article basically covers everything that I've heard and read regarding battery backup systems:
http://www.atlantechsolar.com/solar_power_battery_backup_systems.html

Even if their figures are grossly overstated, I'd still choose grid-tied over battery if we're basing the decision purely on the financial comparison of batteries vs. selling and buying with the electric company.

 

[sunsaver]

Yeah, the batteries are expensive, and more so in some places. Im using agm batteries which are also used, ironically, by the oil and gas insustry for safety reasons. The oil and gas drilling operations and off-shore rigs are so common in Louisianna that i can get nice sized agm batteries for about $200. They were only $150 last year. I figure i'll buy one per year until they start going out. At that time i'll still be buying one per year, cos theoretically they will go out in the sequence which i put them online. If i were to hook back to the grid at my current electric consumption rate, it would probably be about $15 per month. Keep in mind that the batteries are used only at night, and just for tv and LED lighting. I have 4 of them now, and don't seem to need more. I just hate the idea of getting more panels and not having enough batteries save all that sunpower!

I still need to get about $3000 worth of panels in order to run my ac. Im also working on building a solar powered ice maker, using an old propane norcold unit. Ill use condensed and tracked sunlight instead of propane. The problem is heat regulation so i can make ice without cooking the ammonia catalyst and destroying the unit.

 

[offgridgirl]

We have twelve 135 watt 12 volt panels and fourteen 6 volt golf cart batteries that we bought for $70.00 each from Sam's club. We are on our 3rd year and run off grid. I just got a real electric refrigerator instead of the propane one we started out with. After all the kinks were worked out we could do our system for under $10,000.00.

 

[sunsaver]

Yeah, i looked into marine batteries, but they only last about 5years. They corrode real bad on the positive terminal, you have to add distilled water, they outgas hydrogen, too much work. When i realized that i could get agm batteries locally for just a litte more per amphour, that clenched it. They are maintenance free and last 8-10 years. I haven't been out to the power shed in so long, id have to go look to tell you what brand they are!

 

[sunsaver]

It's really nice to finally meet other people who live off-grid, or who are going solar. There are some forums out there, i wont name names, whose sole mission is to divert people who want to go off-grid, and steer them back unto the grid.

What type of fridge did you get offgridgirl? how can you run it on so few batteries?

 

[big brown horse]

And I enjoy reading/learning about it.

Nobody here ever discouraged using solar power or going off grid. (Nifty is the fourm boss man.)

 

[sunsaver]

What a relief to find a solar friendly site. There's some out there that are owned by guys who are obviously highly knowledgeable electrical egineers, but who spend all day trashing people for going off grid. I'm thinking don't these guys ever go to work? Or is this their job, dissing solar power. Why have "solar" in your name if you're anti-solar? Well anyways, glad to be here where there actually are some off-gridders!