Some things just can't be prepared for

[okiegirl1]

did ya'll see the movie "The day after". it's pretty old (like early 80's maybe), but that's always been in my mind regarding nukes.

Those people slowly died of radiation poisioning, everything was contaimnated, just hell on earth. Then if you do live, if you ever try to have babies, God be with you. Have you seen the children that were born after Chernoble (sp?) oh my gosh, so sad!

 

[FarmerChick]

Japan survived and have reproduced and more than flourished. It can be done.

Never to take away the horror of it all----but yes life goes forward. Life finds a way thru it all.

 

[okiegirl1]

Ok, don't jump me if I'm wrong (which is entirely possible)

But didn't we drop atomic bombs, not nukes. I thought the A-bomb distroyed everything, but didn't contaminate everything around for years and years?

(I sure wish we had a spell check. I can hardly spell my own name!)

 

[Big Daddy]

Ok, don't jump me if I'm wrong (which is entirely possible)

But didn't we drop atomic bombs, not nukes. I thought the A-bomb distroyed everything, but didn't contaminate everything around for years and years?

(I sure wish we had a spell check. I can hardly spell my own name!)

Atomic bombs are nukes. The only reason we didn't contaminate the entire country was because they were both very low yield compared to the nukes today. The amount of contamination also depends on how far above the ground they are detonated. It was a very dark spot in our history. We didn't really know what we were playing with though.

The bomb you are talking about is the hydrogen bomb. It still contaminates everything. Just not as long.

 

[Big Daddy]

If you're talking about a limited exchange, such as you would see with Iran or Korea, it would be livable. If your talking about what would have happened during the cold war. Good luck. I was an NBC specialists in the Army in 82. Yes you could live if you got underground soon enough. Then it would have to be a government facility that could stock years worth of water and rations. Fortunately those days have been over for a while. Still a limited threat out there. Probably the biggest threat would be the anarchy that would follow a nuke going off in the US. You could prepare for that though to some extent.

 

[okiegirl1]

Ok, don't jump me if I'm wrong (which is entirely possible)

But didn't we drop atomic bombs, not nukes. I thought the A-bomb distroyed everything, but didn't contaminate everything around for years and years?

(I sure wish we had a spell check. I can hardly spell my own name!)

Atomic bombs are nukes. The only reason we didn't contaminate the entire country was because they were both very low yield compared to the nukes today. The amount of contamination also depends on how far above the ground they are detonated. It was a very dark spot in our history. We didn't really know what we were playing with though.

The bomb you are talking about is the hydrogen bomb. It still contaminates everything. Just not as long.

Ahhhh!! Thanks for explaining.

 

[enjoy the ride]

It was a very dark spot in our history. We didn't really know what we were playing with though.

We had a pretty good idea of what might happen. That is why there were several warnings given to the Japanese government.

Originally the Allies were in a race with the Nazi Axis poweres to develop the nuclear bomb. It was considered urgent to develop lest England and Russia especially would be devastated by them.

But the Nazi's surrendered just at the time the bomb had been finished enough to be used. But the Japanese were still fighting- they retreated from island to island back to the homeland. If you have read about those fights, you understand how horrified the US was about attacking the Japanese Islands. Each of thos island battle had resulted in horrendous casualties for US soldiers and many Japanese trapped by the US advance had committed suicide- there were incidents of mothers throwing infants off clifts then jumping themselves rather than let the US take them into custody. The Japanese propaganda had convinced them of the horror if the US had them in custody.
So Truman was faced with about 50,000 American troops on boats heading for Japan to invade- he was warned that there was an expected 50% US causalty rate and about the same or more of the Japanese population, which had already suffered tremendously from fire bombings. He made the decision based on what was known to save first American lives and then Japanese lives, for despite the tremendous destruction of the H-bomb , an typical invasion would have caused much more death and destruction.
Now my own father was on one of those boats after having survived 4 years fighting in Europe- I and my sisters and their children might not exist if the invasion had proceeded. So I have a direct personl response to the issue. Also, I lived in Japan in 1953-1956- our housemaid was a Hiroshima survivor with burns- I saw personally was the result was.
I also know the Japanese public chose to believe that they were, on the whole, innocent parties to the war and so many of the previous horrors like the Shanghai massacre and the Rape of Nanking. Their typical response is the US "over-reacted." A sort of the Hollocaust never occured thing.
There are many great books on this situation- one from the inside of Emperor's family is Yamato Dynasty by the Seagraves. According to their research, the Emperor of Japan was still looking for a victory of some kind so he could enter into negotiations with the US from a point of strength. He refused to allow their popultion to stop fighting til that had been done. And that is why it took a second bomb before he would surrender.
So life is not as simple as mentioned- it is easy to sit in relative safety and judge but much harder when you don't know the answer in the back of the book.

 

[Big Daddy]

It was a very dark spot in our history. We didn't really know what we were playing with though.

We had a pretty good idea of what might happen. That is why there were several warnings given to the Japanese government.

Originally the Allies were in a race with the Nazi Axis poweres to develop the nuclear bomb. It was considered urgent to develop lest England and Russia especially would be devastated by them.

But the Nazi's surrendered just at the time the bomb had been finished enough to be used. But the Japanese were still fighting- they retreated from island to island back to the homeland. If you have read about those fights, you understand how horrified the US was about attacking the Japanese Islands. Each of thos island battle had resulted in horrendous casualties for US soldiers and many Japanese trapped by the US advance had committed suicide- there were incidents of mothers throwing infants off clifts then jumping themselves rather than let the US take them into custody. The Japanese propaganda had convinced them of the horror if the US had them in custody.
So Truman was faced with about 50,000 American troops on boats heading for Japan to invade- he was warned that there was an expected 50% US causalty rate and about the same or more of the Japanese population, which had already suffered tremendously from fire bombings. He made the decision based on what was known to save first American lives and then Japanese lives, for despite the tremendous destruction of the H-bomb , an typical invasion would have caused much more death and destruction.
Now my own father was on one of those boats after having survived 4 years fighting in Europe- I and my sisters and their children might not exist if the invasion had proceeded. So I have a direct personl response to the issue. Also, I lived in Japan in 1953-1956- our housemaid was a Hiroshima survivor with burns- I saw personally was the result was.
I also know the Japanese public chose to believe that they were, on the whole, innocent parties to the war and so many of the previous horrors like the Shanghai massacre and the Rape of Nanking. Their typical response is the US "over-reacted." A sort of the Hollocaust never occured thing.
There are many great books on this situation- one from the inside of Emperor's family is Yamato Dynasty by the Seagraves. According to their research, the Emperor of Japan was still looking for a victory of some kind so he could enter into negotiations with the US from a point of strength. He refused to allow their popultion to stop fighting til that had been done. And that is why it took a second bomb before he would surrender.
So life is not as simple as mentioned- it is easy to sit in relative safety and judge but much harder when you don't know the answer in the back of the book.

True. But still a dark spot in our history. They didn't know that much about the effects of radiation. They estimate total direct casualties between the 2 cities at around 200,000. That's dead and injured. We may have a slightly different perspective if it was our country that sustained the 200,000 civilian casualties. I wonder if Truman would have made the same decision if he had known that the 2 bombs would cause 65,000 immediate deaths and 138,000 horrendous casualties. Or if he would have maybe changed his strategy and tried to save some lives on both sides. It's always easier to judge history after the fact. As they say hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[ORChick]

Wow! Go to bed to try and re-adjust the internal clock a little (it still is telling me that it is really 10:30 tomorrow morning, and not 5:30 this evening), and when I get back here just look at the conversation that has happened!
Thanks everyone. It was really a great trip; I'll work on getting some photos up later.
As to the bomb - I think, had I been there, and known what is known now, AND had any choice in the matter, I might have wished to either be right at the center of things - and gone instantly - or out on the edge. That middle point was the tough one - skin burned off, and hanging in tatters; the heat and pain so bad that many jumped into the rivers and water cisterns, only to drown because they were too weak to get back to the surface. The Americans really ddin't have a clear idea about the long term effects - aid workers (Americans and others) went in after the fact, and many joined the ranks of victims who suffered and died later from cancer caused by the residual radation.
The museum was very moving, and very disturbing. But I would recommend that you visit it if ever you get the chance. My DH was especially moved by it. The German city where he was born, and grew up, was pretty much flattened by the allies, using conventional weapons, during WWII - he knew it well, having been born less than 4 years after the war ended. As he said in Hiroshima: "If the war had lasted just a bit longer this might have happened in Cologne".

 

[Big Daddy]

It would be horrible to be in a country where a war is being fought. I know Germany and Japan both bough it upon themselves, War is such an un-necessary shame.