hikerchick
Lovin' The Homestead
YOu truly are the voice of reason. I appreciate your posts.FarmerChick said:
The wealth gap & other ills.... Warning: long and could make you sick
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me&thegals
A Major Squash & Pumpkin Lover
Well, actually, (one more time) this thread was about whether it was appropriate for a guy making $5 million/year to complain at the family dinner table that his bonus was cut to only $98,000 in front of people without jobs and health insurance.
Maybe somebody should start another thread about the state of job pay in America, the validity of CEO salaries compared to their employees, and how/if that system should be changed.
Maybe somebody should start another thread about the state of job pay in America, the validity of CEO salaries compared to their employees, and how/if that system should be changed.
FarmerChick
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You are right---it was about that and I responded.....then the answers about WHY he complained came up from others saying that CEOs making big money don't deserve it.
A few things threw this thread off obviously.
If ya want to start one, go for it..LOL
A few things threw this thread off obviously.
If ya want to start one, go for it..LOL
me&thegals
A Major Squash & Pumpkin Lover
I could, but I think it has been fairly well covered hereFarmerChick said:
FarmerChick
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I hear ya me&thegals!
TanksHill
Super Self-Sufficient
Wow, that was a long read. I thought of many great things to say and coment on but ya know what... I won't.
Except that I do agree with the manners part and having tact when conversing with others.
gina
Except that I do agree with the manners part and having tact when conversing with others.
gina
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On Our own
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Many people look back to the 50s as those good old days when we all worked together and we had prosperity and jobs for all. Glenn Beck did a rant to that effect a few weeks back.
What they don't pay any attention to was that at one point the income tax on the highest bracket was 91%!! Additionally, there WERE salary controls throughout some industries. The gov't set wages from top to bottom. They also set production quotas and prices.
The gov't flat out owned most major utilities and no one questioned it.
This country was FAR, FAR more socialistic then than it even comes close to now. There were problems related to all of these and I am not espousing it as a solution, I am just pointing out that people are having a knee jerk reaction to a concept instead of thinking through how it has been used before. Currently while the gap between the very top and he bottom is larger than it has even been in this country the top tax rate only goes to under $400,000. And the majority of people who earn in the millions have multitudinous ways of avoiding paying their taxes.
Besides why does the battle have to be between democracy and socialism? For one thing one is a political system and one is an economic system. And both are man made constructs. If you don't like the options - make up another one.
What they don't pay any attention to was that at one point the income tax on the highest bracket was 91%!! Additionally, there WERE salary controls throughout some industries. The gov't set wages from top to bottom. They also set production quotas and prices.
The gov't flat out owned most major utilities and no one questioned it.
This country was FAR, FAR more socialistic then than it even comes close to now. There were problems related to all of these and I am not espousing it as a solution, I am just pointing out that people are having a knee jerk reaction to a concept instead of thinking through how it has been used before. Currently while the gap between the very top and he bottom is larger than it has even been in this country the top tax rate only goes to under $400,000. And the majority of people who earn in the millions have multitudinous ways of avoiding paying their taxes.
Besides why does the battle have to be between democracy and socialism? For one thing one is a political system and one is an economic system. And both are man made constructs. If you don't like the options - make up another one.
Very good post!
In the 50's and to a decreasing extent, 60's and 70's, many factories had government contracts. That gave the government say in the daily operations. The quotas were were set for success. This really wasn't socialism in the talk radio defined sense, but basic business practices that are in effect today.
A defense contract would put the entire community to work, the loss of it devastated it. The worst strike in the history of our main local employer with defense contracts was in 1955. The union won even though the company held an exclusive contract with the government.
There's nothing wrong with finding a balance with dissimilar economic philosophies.
In the 50's and to a decreasing extent, 60's and 70's, many factories had government contracts. That gave the government say in the daily operations. The quotas were were set for success. This really wasn't socialism in the talk radio defined sense, but basic business practices that are in effect today.
A defense contract would put the entire community to work, the loss of it devastated it. The worst strike in the history of our main local employer with defense contracts was in 1955. The union won even though the company held an exclusive contract with the government.
There's nothing wrong with finding a balance with dissimilar economic philosophies.
enjoy the ride
Sufficient Life
I had decided to leave this thread alone as there were so many posts that included reading things that were not said into their reponses.
I for one , never said the man didn't deserve his bonus- I don't know him, what he does, so that was impossible. I might have an opinion that in general, bonuses creep up as people always want more, think they are worth more than their co-worker, think they should get more than those they out-rank, etc. As long as there is a growing pot of money, this is what happens.
But the point I was making was that too many people in this country, even before the recession became obvious, were being priced out of a chance of a basic middle class life. Too many jobs being sent outside of the US and not enough development creating anything new. Basically a lot of people were making money out of selling things to the US that were made cheaper overseas than they could be made in the US.
For while, people were living the pyramid screme - watching their houses increase in value and borrowing off them, watching the stock market increase based on the creation and sale of what were basically bets and insurance package to look like real assets, which were unregulated as no one wanted to point out the Emperor's new clothes did not exist.
Then gas rose, people and business had increasing costs without being able to get higher prices, in part because things could still be made cheaper elsewhere. People's houses did not go up and they had already borrowed more than they could repay- defaults on housing started and the derivatives based on poor loan where suddenly shown for what they were- worth much less then their face value. So now a lot of banks and other entities were in trouble as they also owned more than these devalued assets were worth.
Job losses escalated as people could not afford to keep buying and keep various businesses going- so more job loses.
It is not "jealously" to find the greed that lead to sales of "nothing" wrong- nor the ignorance that bought them without understanding them . There is plenty of fault to go around. And the greed hangover is being treated with the hair of the dog- more greed.
But in all that, I want the people who are my neighbors to have good jobs, that pay for basic needs and provide a future to coming generations. I do believe that the constant quest for a bigger paycheck in part of the population lead to a large part of this problem- people did not invest in new technologies as much as want to gather what should have been reinvested for their own use. Eliminate whateve you can from employees in order to max the profit and sell more stock. Send business elsewhere without regard to the dirty things done "somewhere else."
Remember all those "sweatshop" scandals with design clothes- make cheap else and sell to the US. It's become hard to find anything made here.
Now behavior like this is a human tendency, but so are many other things that are clearly short sighted.
Anyone who raises livestock knows there is a difference between careful management and starving a profit from your animals. Starving them gets you more money for the short term but loses everything in the long term. Too long in this country, we have made individual "wealth" by not spending on maintaining road, bridges, hospitals, innovations and improvements. There are many alive now who have never seen anything else. We built wealth as a nation then decided to live on it. It's not used up yet but the time is coming when it will be, if we continue. If we live totally for ourselves now and no thought for the future.
I for one , never said the man didn't deserve his bonus- I don't know him, what he does, so that was impossible. I might have an opinion that in general, bonuses creep up as people always want more, think they are worth more than their co-worker, think they should get more than those they out-rank, etc. As long as there is a growing pot of money, this is what happens.
But the point I was making was that too many people in this country, even before the recession became obvious, were being priced out of a chance of a basic middle class life. Too many jobs being sent outside of the US and not enough development creating anything new. Basically a lot of people were making money out of selling things to the US that were made cheaper overseas than they could be made in the US.
For while, people were living the pyramid screme - watching their houses increase in value and borrowing off them, watching the stock market increase based on the creation and sale of what were basically bets and insurance package to look like real assets, which were unregulated as no one wanted to point out the Emperor's new clothes did not exist.
Then gas rose, people and business had increasing costs without being able to get higher prices, in part because things could still be made cheaper elsewhere. People's houses did not go up and they had already borrowed more than they could repay- defaults on housing started and the derivatives based on poor loan where suddenly shown for what they were- worth much less then their face value. So now a lot of banks and other entities were in trouble as they also owned more than these devalued assets were worth.
Job losses escalated as people could not afford to keep buying and keep various businesses going- so more job loses.
It is not "jealously" to find the greed that lead to sales of "nothing" wrong- nor the ignorance that bought them without understanding them . There is plenty of fault to go around. And the greed hangover is being treated with the hair of the dog- more greed.
But in all that, I want the people who are my neighbors to have good jobs, that pay for basic needs and provide a future to coming generations. I do believe that the constant quest for a bigger paycheck in part of the population lead to a large part of this problem- people did not invest in new technologies as much as want to gather what should have been reinvested for their own use. Eliminate whateve you can from employees in order to max the profit and sell more stock. Send business elsewhere without regard to the dirty things done "somewhere else."
Remember all those "sweatshop" scandals with design clothes- make cheap else and sell to the US. It's become hard to find anything made here.
Now behavior like this is a human tendency, but so are many other things that are clearly short sighted.
Anyone who raises livestock knows there is a difference between careful management and starving a profit from your animals. Starving them gets you more money for the short term but loses everything in the long term. Too long in this country, we have made individual "wealth" by not spending on maintaining road, bridges, hospitals, innovations and improvements. There are many alive now who have never seen anything else. We built wealth as a nation then decided to live on it. It's not used up yet but the time is coming when it will be, if we continue. If we live totally for ourselves now and no thought for the future.
Beekissed
Mountain Sage
Agreed! 
