Beekeeping...for those interested!

[me&thegals]

That's great, AAL! So sorry for your loss of your dad, but it's neat that you will be able to carry on his desire for bees. I have REALLY been enjoying mine It's amazing how much time a family can spend out at the hives watching the goings on. It sounds like you probably have Langstroth hives, but if there is any way you can get observation windows built in, I would highly recommend it. On the other hand, you will save yourself a LOT of time if you don't Good luck next year!

 

[Beekissed]

Got a question for you beeks.....do you use Apiguard for varroa mites? Do you also use powdered sugar? Just boning up on the beekeeping, as this next year is my year.....no holds barred. I want my own bees!

So.....tell me?

 

[me&thegals]

Hi Bee--How appropriate that you will finally get bees

As with most ventures in my life, I won't be using chemicals. No problems so far, and I really, really, really hope it stays that way! Mine are in topbars, and I hope that setup will reduce some of their risks with mites and beetles. I hope that with no exposure to disease and chemical buildup in foundation (they are building all their own comb) that they will be stronger for resisting disease. I also hope that being in an area with a tremendous variety to forage on, they will be healthy.

But, they are only colonies from May 2009. A little early to tell for certain. If the worst comes to pass, I think I may need to let them go. I'm not sure on this one. I know what I think but if/when I'm actually faced with it, it might be a different story. What I think is that I don't want to "prop up" any bees that are not tough enough and then perpetuate their weakness. I want to read a lot this winter about capturing swarms, especially from feral/wild colonies that have already established their ability to withstand mites, beetles and disease.

So, stepping back down off my soapbox

ETA: I did a lot of reading on Michael Bush's site, backyardhive.com and biobees.com. Good luck!

 

[the simple life]

M&G, That approach is referred to as the the live and let die method.
I am on board with that as well.
I will not treat my bees and prefer to build up better survivor stock from my 11 colonies.
I have alot of diverse stock in my yard and will work with whatever I have left each spring and bring in more survivor genetics.
The chemical treadmill is a bad concept, you can never get off. Your bees will rely on it and the mites and other pests will go resistant to it.
Wax is a sponge and will absorb anything you put into your hive and eventually can reach toxic levels.
Besides, one of the points of having my own bees is to have pure honey and I don't see how pure it can be if it is stored in wax combs that have been treated.
I understand the beeks that don't want to lose their stock and have to buy more and I am not putting that down, its a valid reason for them to want to treat.
For me though, I had made up my mind well before I got my bees to be prepared to not treat and lose some colonies (maybe heavily) until I had built up some good survivor stock.
Then again there are people who treat and they still lose a substantial amount of hives each spring so I am going to take the risk.
I have heard of people who had big losses every year and then when they stopped treating with chemicals they stopped losing their colonies.
I was fortunate enough to get some good stock to start out with, although I had to travel out of state a few times to get them it will be worth it.
I also captured a swarm and did a cutout recently.
I caught the swarm at a neighbor's house and they are very productive.
The a family called about a swarm of bees that took up residence in the eaves of their house.
I went in on July 4th and cut into the walls of the second floor bedroom and cut out the hive.
I am glad they chose not to spray, the bees are gone from their house so they are happy and I have a real sweet hive of bees living in my vegetable garden so I am happy and I have added more genetics to my yard.

 

[Beekissed]

From what I understand, Apiguard is just Thymol which is concentrated oils from the thyme plant. The vapors are an irritant to varroa mites and tracheal mites. If you had varroa mites would you be against using herbal treatments such as thymol or lemon grass to keep them healthy? How bout the powdered sugar thingy?

 

[me&thegals]

I guess I should clarify. I will never treat with commercial chemicals. I don't even use antibiotics with my kids (at least not any more), so why my bees? I don't spray pests in my garden, so why my bees? Obviously, I would treat my kids if their lives were in danger.

I do use organic or holistic medicine, though, but rarely even that. My belief for human life is that a clean environment, good food and exercise build up enough health to resist most disease without help. So, my girls have a clean hive environment and a lot of organic forage but also live right next to conventional fields. Hmmm.... They definitely get a lot of exercise!

Like simple life says, I don't want to prop up nonsurvivor genetics. I just rushed into this, ordered 2 packages and now need to learn a lot more about bee species and traits. A friend of a friend of a friend in my area is apparently trying to breed bees especially suited to our cold winters. Catching feral swarms seems to be another great place to find these genes. And like you say, simple life, just developing your own beeyard full of genes that are perfect for your area (by letting the weak ones die) is excellent.

OTOH, I've gotten attached to these girls and their amazing colonies! If I knew they were struggling with something (they're not, thank goodness!), it would be tough to not even try some natural remedy.

Natalie--How amazing that you have caught a swarm and done a cut-out--all in your first year--and 11 hives! Do you happen to have any Warre hives?

me&thegals

 

[the simple life]

The warre' hives interest me and I have been getting some information on them from another beekeeper.
I have been doing some of the things put into practice in the warre' hives such as bottom supering the brood boxes and trying to never interfere in their brood nest.
I will actually be seeing him next weekend at the
Northeastern Chemical Free Beekeeping Conference and I hope to learn more from him.
I am extremely excited to meet members of our bee forum and people like Michael Bush, Dee Lusby, I already know Sam Comfort but it will be nice to see him again and alot of other well known chemical free beekeepers from around the world.
I will find out alot more after this conference and maybe be able to come back and give more insight on your question Bee.
I had considered powdered sugar at one time if needed but now I am not really thinking along those lines.
I know that thymol is suppose to be all natural but I still want my bees to develop a resistance to the mites and not rely on my interference.
All of the successful beekeepers that are not treating claim that the bees and mites learn to evolve and coexist, the mites are not erradicated but the bees are able to handle a certain load.
There are different strains of bees such as the minnesota hygenics and the russians with traits that make them groom more and pick the bees off of eachother and those traits are considered desireable in developing a good line of survivor stock.

I have minnesota hygenics, russians, russian crosses, new world carniolans (the new stock from Sue Cobey) some feral stock that I got from Sam Comfort and I am pretty sure that swarm I caught were italians.
This gives me a good base to build my stock on.

There is a whole microbial theory being disucussed right now in the chemical free arena involving the health of the bee's guts.
Its pretty involved but very interesting.
Dean Stiglitz and Ramona (laurie) Herboldshier did a presentation on it at my bee club a few months back and it was fascinating.
Ramona is going to be presenting on this at the Chemical Free Conference next week as well.
I already bought my notebook and extra pens.

Ross Conrad does alot with natural herbs/oils/tea and swears by it.
I think what he does is more to do with building up the bees immune systems rather than use the oils as a quick fix when something goes wrong.

I know someone who makes an herbal tea that he feeds to the bees in their sugar water.
There are also many who are against all artificial feeding as well referring to sugar as a chemical which is another whole debate I have heard over and over again.
They say that if its not something a bee would come in contact with in nature on their own then its wrong to put it in their hive.

While I can see this point of view for hardcore live and let die I can't see letting bees starve to death either if it was a particularly long winter, although the best thing to do in that situation would be to feed them back some frames of honey that you may have pulled in the fall, that is providing they produced enough to allow you to do so.
That would be my first choice, which is why I am freezing the extra frames of honey before I take any for myself this year.
How about I let you know what the experts say after the conference?

 

[Beekissed]

Great! I'm with you gals on the survival of the fittest thing. That is how I do my chicken flock as well. I want genes of tough birds that can survive and so I don't give meds of any kind.

I was asking because I am aware of the debate over such things and was wondering how you folks leaned. What has been successful for you and all that jazz.

I would like to raise the bees all-natural, if possible and will be perusing the forums and books this year to find out how others do it.

Do you requeen your hives when they don't do as well? If so, do you do it with another kind of bee to bring in different genetics or do you stick with the same type?

 

[the simple life]

If the hive had great genetics and something had just happened to the queen and they wanted to raise their own queen from an emergency queen cell then I would let them.

If they decided the queen was not doing well, which is usually the case, they see it before the beekeeper does then they will supercede her by building queen cells and raising themelves a new queen and then they will ball the old one.
Sometimes they ball her right away and other times there will be two queens in the hive at the same time for a while.
Most knowlegeable beeks will advise you not to cutout queen cells when you see them because you could end up queenless as the bees know when the old queen is failing and prepare her replacement.
My school of thought is that the bees know what they are doing when it comes to all things in the hive, especially when it relates to the queen.
They have a reason for everything they do so I just let them make all the decisions and I am just there to support them, sort of the casual observer that will lend a hand.

If for some reason I felt I needed to requeen the hive due to the colony being too aggressive then I would find a breeder with the type of genetics I am looking for.
I won't tolerate a hot hive in my yard, my bee garden is set up less than 20 feet from my back door.
I'll post some pictures for you guys.

 

[Beekissed]

Good info! Thanks! Have you all ever checked out this guy's blog....he has some great pics and explanations of what the pics show.

http://wvbeekeeper.blogspot.com/

I don't think he does things all natural but he certainly has some interesting pictorials on how to do things with the bees, what diseases look like, etc.