Energy efficiency versus renewable/green energy?

[DianeB]

I don't hate or despise anyone.

 

[Big Daddy]

I'm hoping that between people voluntarily cutting back and the government forcing some issues, we can all walk away saying, "See I was right". The believers can say "See the controls worked". The non believers can say "See it was all part of Earths natural cycle". If it ever gets bad enough that the believers can say "See what you did, why didn't you listen?" then it will be too late. I think most of the young people are believers for now. Hopefully they will do what's right. Then the only thing we have to worry about is the lizards from another planet eating us.

Meanwhile I will continue to try to do what is right. I actually paid an extra 5.00 at Sam's the other day for paper plates for the school Christmas Party. The other choice was styrofoam. It costs more but I knew it was the right thing to do. Now if I can just eliminate T-paper.

 

[DianeB]

To be honest most of the debate over if global warming is happening or not is politcally and financially motivated. Corporations spend quite a bit of time and money to argue against any change. Look at the politicians that declare their is no global warming or those horrible commercials by the coal and oil industries. (FarmerChick, if I was to hate anyone it would be those corporations.)

This is were people get their lassez faire attitude to the environment. It is due to so much misinformation.

I know I have a different perception than half the US pop. because I was a geography major. The idea that anyone could stil believe that climate is constant and that pumping so much CO2 and methane into the air while destroying our carbon sinks is not going to warm up the planet fusterating.

Then I calm down. Start talking to my neighbors and friends. Then I realize, that most people do know their is a problem. It is just too confusing or daunting for them. They don't know were to start. They don't know how to change.

 

[patandchickens]

Don't have a defeitist attitude. This breaks my heart. Once people start giving up on changing things it is quickly downhill from there. It takes time and work, but people can and do change.

Can I say, I think you are BOTH right? And both saying partly the same thing.

It is a question of what is changeable and what isn't -- and in what time frame.

The smart thing to do IMHO is to focus on the things that seem changeable in a reasonable time frame, and NOT waste energy and effort and hope on things that you are frankly fairly unlikely to be able to do anything about.

For instance FC refers to attitudes on interracial marriages. People of previous generations who were culturally trained to be horrified at the thought, you know what, very few of them ever really changed their attitudes, not "much" anyhow. On the other hand, the generation that was young in the 50s and 60s and 70s, THEIR attitudes were susceptible to change, just cuz they were younger and more rebellious at the time. It's the same way with a lot of other entrenched prejudices -- against women in science/academia/business, against people of some races or ethnicities, a lot of things -- oftentimes you sort of just have to wait for the 'old guard' to die out and be replaced by those with different ideas.

Some things can certainly be changed. People can, by dint of a great deal of PR and sometimes fairly coercive garbage pickup schedules, be gotten to recycle a fair bit of their waste. People can be gotten to save energy if it is made economically-appealing and/or the momentarily trendy thing to do. People can even, to some degree, be brought to care about things like species extinction when it frankly has no practical impact on them at all.

But other things it is unreasonable to think you can change. For instance the general tendency of people to form us vs them groups; peoples' instinct to put their own welfare before (often *far* before) the welfare of the group; longstanding national/ethnic/cultural hatreds; desire for comfort; etc.

That is not to say those things cannot change; some of them change verrrrryyyy slowly over time (although I really think there are a lot of features of human nature that are basically unbudgeable) but YOU (or you or you or any of us, not even working together) are not going to make any real difference no matter how hard ya try.

So it makes more sense to me to focus your energy in places where it has a real likelihood of doing some good (as you are suggesting, Diane), not wasting it in places that are virtually a solid rock wall (as you are saying we shouldn't, FC)

Pat

 

[Big Daddy]

Misinformation will be the death of us.

 

[FarmerChick]

That is not to say those things cannot change; some of them change verrrrryyyy slowly over time (although I really think there are a lot of features of human nature that are basically unbudgeable) but YOU (or you or you or any of us, not even working together) are not going to make any real difference no matter how hard ya try.

So it makes more sense to me to focus your energy in places where it has a real likelihood of doing some good (as you are suggesting, Diane), not wasting it in places that are virtually a solid rock wall (as you are saying we shouldn't, FC)

Pat

I never said we are a solid rock wall.

You just said although I really think there are a lot of features of human nature that are basically unbudgeable. That is my point. And it will be the downfall of what we know as truth and reality.

I make changs. I say educate. I say "do it all" and hope the untimate good will come. I have hope and faith. But my little edge is, what you said, some things are basically unbudgeable.....

reality is just that---what is real
we can make changes
we need MONSTER big changes
can it happen, NOT that I can see right now in my reality, so I question

Humans are the best and worst. And some live in between.

What does it hold for the future. ???

 

[FarmerChick]

Misinformation will be the death of us.

misinformation along with human traits

 

[FarmerChick]

To be honest most of the debate over if global warming is happening or not is politcally and financially motivated. Corporations spend quite a bit of time and money to argue against any change. Look at the politicians that declare their is no global warming or those horrible commercials by the coal and oil industries. (FarmerChick, if I was to hate anyone it would be those corporations.)

This is were people get their lassez faire attitude to the environment. It is due to so much misinformation.

I know I have a different perception than half the US pop. because I was a geography major. The idea that anyone could stil believe that climate is constant and that pumping so much CO2 and methane into the air while destroying our carbon sinks is not going to warm up the planet fusterating.

Then I calm down. Start talking to my neighbors and friends. Then I realize, that most people do know their is a problem. It is just too confusing or daunting for them. They don't know were to start. They don't know how to change.

you can't hate a corporation. it is a thing. You are hating the people running it along with all the people using and abusing it.

 

[DianeB]

True! But can I still dislike the CEOs and their commericals?

 

[FarmerChick]

of course you can dislike the people running the show.

the love of money is the root to all evil and it happens that corps play this card well, along with the CEO's and stockholders down to the grunt employees needing a job to pay for basic human survival.

and commercials. you can love or hate them.....that is not in question at all.