Hey, Who's Up For Some Higher Electric Bills?

[Wifezilla]

We hear from our electric company that since they have seen a deduction in usage, that they have to raise rates in order to stay afloat.

Bingo.

We had this very issue in Colorado concerning water. We had a drought. It is a normal part of our weather cycle. The city flipped out and started talking about water shortages and water rationing. The people responded. Xeroscaping became common. People installed flow restrictors in their showers. They switched to low water use toilets. They changed the type of grass they grew to breeds that required a lot less watering. The result? Due to a successful conservation effort, there was less revenue to the water department and they "had" to raise their rates.


There is a big difference between an individual choosing to use alternative energy and a municipality pursuing an unproven dream. Want to use solar? Go buy some panels. Live in a windy area? Go get yourself a tower and a generator. Knock yourself out. Want to artificially inflate the cost of fossil fuels and screw the tax payers so you can feel all warm and fuzzy? Get bent!

 

[abifae]

Ugh. Yes. We cut usage by over 30% in Ft Collins and our water prices DOUBLED. So after all that cutting, our prices went up per month compared to what we were paying. If they were only staying afloat, the price would have stayed where it was with less usage, not nearly doubled.

>.>

But no choice. You want water, you pay.

 

[FarmerChick]

so glad I have a deep wonder well!

I hate the thought of ever paying for water, and I won't, hoping nothing changes to make that happen

 

[FarmerChick]

so where do we run, were do we hide?

big corps out to get us all no matter what we do? get bent, haha, but what is the answer?

 

[Wifezilla]

Well that's the rub isn't it? Where do you go and what do you do?

It has to be solved on an individual level. There is a huge opportunity just sitting there. Some people are deciding that solar and wind is cost effective for them. Out here the fees to have a power line run to a new house on an undeveloped lot is stupid high. In that case the math does make sense.

Despite the years of our local government telling people to ditch their fire places, people are installing new ones. There was a big push a few years ago to get people to switch to "cheap, clean, efficient natural gas!!!". The city pushed it big time. Then guess what? "Due to the rise in demand for natural gas, we have to substantially raise our rates!".

Gee, who saw that coming??



Anyway, people have to be able to choose what makes the most sense for them and their families. Hydropower is pretty useless out here, but we do have lots of pine trees. We also have lots and lots and lots of coal.

 

[FarmerJamie]

I've been following this thread all day (peeking from work....)

This is a complex problem, as many of you already said, reduced usage costs us more in the (not-so) long run. Other examples:
- Cleveland Water Dept, said yep, the reduced demand forces us to raise rates
- During the previous gas price spikes, the federal congresscritters were wringing their hands because the reduced demand lowered tax income to the feds
- San Francisco's low-flow toilet initiatives caused infrastructure issues because there wasn't enough water to effectively move the, uh, *product*, through the lines.
- the Chevy Volt built here in Ohio isn't selling well, so the option to perk up sales is to levy a $1/gallon gas tax (suggested by GM's CEO).

WZ, I agree with your point, this has to be solved from the ground up, not the top down. We need to be allowed to find out what works for us as individuals.

Abi, you're right, too, what are we willing to give up? Hard question indeed.

Pat, I get what you are saying, too, but the solution is not going to dictated from the top, we have to influence from grassroots, IMO.

What we really need is some visionary thinkers that can be clearly understood by the masses of sheeple out there and not get easily dismissed as someone asking us to chase unicorn farts.....

 

[abifae]

OMG. I hadn't thought about *that* issue with low flow toilets!!! But yes...

I don't have ANY solution ideas. Honestly, my hope is rising prices drive someone more clever than I am to find a better solution.

You know, speaking of unicorn farts.... I've heard the good ideas generated by MIT are bought up by utilities companies so they don't get run out of business. If that's true, hopefully those guys are making something that will work and they can release it themselves and transition themselves.

 

[rhoda_bruce]

A few years ago DH and I were freaked out by the direction we seemed to be going (nation wide) and we fought our concerns by 'tending' to some of our own needs.
At this point, there is not much anyone can say that can shock me. I guess I'm just waiting for something terrible to happen. It seems like everytime I go to the store or gas pump, something went up a little more since previous.
I use it as 'inspiration', if I may call it that. The news I hear (and I admit is not good), inspires me to be prepared.
I almost don't even feel like I'm living in a free country, with all the redtape and regulations imposed on us, for everything we can possibly do, build, buy, etc.
Regarding paying more for electricity: When I can't pay for my 'needs' I will re-do the math. Obviously I need electricty more than internet service, cable or phone, so those are going first and then I'm going to look around and see what I can unplug.
We are currently looking @ possible methods of cooling with underground temps. I am also very close to seeing how hot my compost pile can make water, because if it works like I understand, we will be diffinetely giving that a try. If we can knock those things out the way, then solar will perhaps be a lot more affordable. As of now, forget it. I simply wouldn't be able to justify it.
We are just wimps. Our great-grands didn't have all this junk and they ate and preserved food and used common sense ways to survive.
I don't have a crystal ball but I have been hearing news, paying bills, buying food for a long time and we have been heading down for a while now. As far as I can see it, the only way to afford to eat and live, is to lower our standard of living.

 

[Leta]

The thing that really greases my ass is the fact that sustainable building is de facto illegal in most places.

For example, you *must* have a septic system. You can't have composting toilets and greywater filtration and reuse.

You *must* hook up to the electrical grid. To avoid this, you have to get a remote cabin variance. Well, what if you aren't that remote, what if you just want to be off the grid? Why should you have to pay $2500 for a whole house inverter when you can get an individual inverter for $30 and get any number of 12v appliances from an RV/trucker store? It makes no sense to have to wire a solar powered house for AC.

This is the kind of ridiculous BS that makes ground up solutions difficult to impossible.

The whole "conservation forces us to raise rates" business reminds me of tobacco taxes. We want people to quit smoking, let's tax this to encourage them to smoke less. Oooh, tax money, yay! Wait, now people smoke less, so we have less money, oh no! Ooh, I've got it, let's raise tobacco taxes. What's going to happen when everyone stops smoking?! It's beyond vicious- it's the stupid cycle. This is what happens when you don't begin with the end in mind.

 

[Wifezilla]

Yes, there is the issue of being forced to have a totally conventional home. Usually that is driven by the mortgage companies. It kills innovation and creativity. We need diversity in our home resource utilization.