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Wildsky
Femivore
See, HepB is pretty much sexually transmitted - or blood to blood. I don't see a reason for that for my kids.miss_thenorth said:
(my oldest is in Grade 4)
Moved away from Mainstream (medicine)
- Thread starter Wildsky
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(my oldest is in Grade 4)
FarmerChick
Super Self-Sufficient
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I vaccinate also. Personal choice. I think it is a good preventive measure.
Nicole gets all she needs for shots. I would never not vaccinate her.
Everyone has their choice.....go with what you want. Your kids well being is your responsibility. So we all must live with our choices that affect the health of our kids.
I surely ain't a pill popper ever, if I can find a natural remedy I am all for it. Both parents are 81 and 80 and they have never or are not now on any pills for anything...I hope to follow that pattern.LOL
Nicole gets all she needs for shots. I would never not vaccinate her.
Everyone has their choice.....go with what you want. Your kids well being is your responsibility. So we all must live with our choices that affect the health of our kids.
I surely ain't a pill popper ever, if I can find a natural remedy I am all for it. Both parents are 81 and 80 and they have never or are not now on any pills for anything...I hope to follow that pattern.LOL
miss_thenorth
Frugal Homesteader
Wilkdsky:
I understand that, and even though we are Christians, and we teach abstinence, --we decided to have him get it anyways. On the chances that something DOES happen, and he acquires it, his life would be screwed up. And let's face it--teenagers are prone to screwing up regardless of how they are parented.
Just like you chose NOT to vaccinate-we choose TO vaccinate.
Just sharing our side, and hopefully you will be tolerant of our choices, just like I am tolerant of your choice.
I understand that, and even though we are Christians, and we teach abstinence, --we decided to have him get it anyways. On the chances that something DOES happen, and he acquires it, his life would be screwed up. And let's face it--teenagers are prone to screwing up regardless of how they are parented.
Just like you chose NOT to vaccinate-we choose TO vaccinate.
Just sharing our side, and hopefully you will be tolerant of our choices, just like I am tolerant of your choice.
FarmerChick
Super Self-Sufficient
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hey north
I agree with ya...I like the "better safe than sorry" approach also. Just for me it is my way of handling some health situations like this!
But like ya said, we all have our way of doing things....
I agree with ya...I like the "better safe than sorry" approach also. Just for me it is my way of handling some health situations like this!
But like ya said, we all have our way of doing things....
enjoy the ride
Sufficient Life
I guess that I have a different prespective- although I agree with Beeskissed about overdoing the vaccines, I am old enough to remember numbers of kids-2 and 4 years old dragging around with heavy braces on their legs from polio and seeing people living in iron lungs, their whole world confined to what they could see in a mirror. I personally had mumps, measles, chicken pox- what used to be called the "usual childhood diseases." Now everytime I get really stressed, I get shingles in the same place I got chicken pox- inside my throat. Painful and it wouldn't be happening now if I hadn't had chicken pox.
I remember diptheria, whooping cough, measles and other epidemics that killed numbers of babies and small children every year around this country. I remember pictures of the "Sad Mother sitting next to the Hospital bed" every year in the newspapers.
I would not want to vaccinate for everything possible either and I think teaching cleanliness goes a long way to help.
But people do not make the decision not to vaccinate for themselves alone- they make it for everyone who has contact with them. Enough people do not vaccinate, then the disease spreads. Vaccinations for your kids would help but no vaccination is fool proof nor can it protect against overwhelming infection sources.
Like many things, people overdo any good thing including vaccines and antibiotics but a trip through an old graveyard will show the result of having to be without vaccinations or anitbiotic. All those sad little tombstones to babies, toddlers and children.
Lets see- allergies vs diptheria- hmmmm
I remember diptheria, whooping cough, measles and other epidemics that killed numbers of babies and small children every year around this country. I remember pictures of the "Sad Mother sitting next to the Hospital bed" every year in the newspapers.
I would not want to vaccinate for everything possible either and I think teaching cleanliness goes a long way to help.
But people do not make the decision not to vaccinate for themselves alone- they make it for everyone who has contact with them. Enough people do not vaccinate, then the disease spreads. Vaccinations for your kids would help but no vaccination is fool proof nor can it protect against overwhelming infection sources.
Like many things, people overdo any good thing including vaccines and antibiotics but a trip through an old graveyard will show the result of having to be without vaccinations or anitbiotic. All those sad little tombstones to babies, toddlers and children.
Lets see- allergies vs diptheria- hmmmm
ScottyG
Lovin' The Homestead
Just to add something to this discussion... I totally understand that these things are in some ways personal choices. And I in no way mean to start an argument. But there are reasons to get vaccinated that aren't just personal choices. To quote an official government document (with a few additions in parentheses myself):
"Another reason to get vaccinated is to protect those around us. A small number of persons cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons such as a severe allergy to vaccine components (as well as immune-compromising conditions such as children born with HIV), and a small percentage simply do not respond to vaccines. These persons are susceptible to disease (many of them fatal), and their only hope of protection is that people around them have been successfully vaccinated and cannot pass disease along to them. A successful vaccination program, like a successful society, depends on the cooperation of every individual to ensure the good for all. We would think it irresponsible of a driver to ignore all traffic regulations on the presumption that other drivers will watch out for him or her. In the same way, we shouldn't rely on people around us to stop the spread of disease if we ourselves can be vaccinated. We must all do what we can."
The reason, as MorelCabin says above, that there aren't many measles cases, is because the measles vaccine has been successful. But measles is still around all the time. It's just that the vaccine is widespread enough that it has a very hard time finding a person's body to live in and replicate. But the more people pass up on vaccines, the more risks there are for everyone, including vaccinated people whose vaccines didn't take right, and those who can't be vaccinated. The measles is rare because of vaccines, but in fact the number of measles outbreaks is rising in some communities because of those who don't vaccinate. And the immuno-compromised are in trouble because of it.
Again, I don't mean to judge, and I understand some of the reasons behind avoiding vaccinations. But I think it's important to note that it's not just a personal choice, but one that affects public health of your whole community. I hope this doesn't sound like a big argument. I mean it respectfully. But I feel fairly strongly about this, having some friends with difficult-to-handle immune conditions, who are very affected by others' vaccination choices.
"Another reason to get vaccinated is to protect those around us. A small number of persons cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons such as a severe allergy to vaccine components (as well as immune-compromising conditions such as children born with HIV), and a small percentage simply do not respond to vaccines. These persons are susceptible to disease (many of them fatal), and their only hope of protection is that people around them have been successfully vaccinated and cannot pass disease along to them. A successful vaccination program, like a successful society, depends on the cooperation of every individual to ensure the good for all. We would think it irresponsible of a driver to ignore all traffic regulations on the presumption that other drivers will watch out for him or her. In the same way, we shouldn't rely on people around us to stop the spread of disease if we ourselves can be vaccinated. We must all do what we can."
The reason, as MorelCabin says above, that there aren't many measles cases, is because the measles vaccine has been successful. But measles is still around all the time. It's just that the vaccine is widespread enough that it has a very hard time finding a person's body to live in and replicate. But the more people pass up on vaccines, the more risks there are for everyone, including vaccinated people whose vaccines didn't take right, and those who can't be vaccinated. The measles is rare because of vaccines, but in fact the number of measles outbreaks is rising in some communities because of those who don't vaccinate. And the immuno-compromised are in trouble because of it.
Again, I don't mean to judge, and I understand some of the reasons behind avoiding vaccinations. But I think it's important to note that it's not just a personal choice, but one that affects public health of your whole community. I hope this doesn't sound like a big argument. I mean it respectfully. But I feel fairly strongly about this, having some friends with difficult-to-handle immune conditions, who are very affected by others' vaccination choices.
me&thegals
A Major Squash & Pumpkin Lover
I think ScottyG makes a good point. I used to work for the health department part time in their vaccination program and it was often pointed out that one reason some people can safely choose not to vaccinate is that everyone else has been vaccinated and disease rates are very low.
I still think that there is way too much vaccination in this country for many illnesses that I don't think are that critical. Plus, my child who was on a regular vaccination regimen from birth still got whooping cough as a 1 year old...
It would be great if a lot more research $ went into alternative medicine, effects of nonvaccination...
I still think that there is way too much vaccination in this country for many illnesses that I don't think are that critical. Plus, my child who was on a regular vaccination regimen from birth still got whooping cough as a 1 year old...
It would be great if a lot more research $ went into alternative medicine, effects of nonvaccination...
- Thread starter
- #18
Wildsky
Femivore
See, I don't buy into the whole "herd immunity" line, I don't think its my responsibility to shoot my kids up to save anyone else. To risk the side effect etc... (weakened immune system, Autism??, perhaps childhood cancers - those have increased haven't they? allergies - how many more do you see NOW than say 15 -20 years ago)
I don't have much time here. I'm not trying to argue either, just want to point out the other side of the coin.
Most of the deaths from Measles etc.. are from other complications, or due to a weakened immune system (why?) As lots of folks with AIDS, don't DIE of aids, they die of the flu or something else.
Lots of those deaths and such were also a LONG time ago - with advances in medical care, there would be none of those deaths.
I had measles as a child, I had mumps and whooping cough as well. Who knows WHY I got through it so easily, young, stong immune system, good food, good hygiene etc.
What about vaccines wearing off in the teen years, right when those illnesses become MORE serious, a small child with Mumps won't suffer much, but a teen - thats another story - why not get Immunity for LIFE by getting sick for a week and being done..?
I don't have much time here. I'm not trying to argue either, just want to point out the other side of the coin.
Most of the deaths from Measles etc.. are from other complications, or due to a weakened immune system (why?) As lots of folks with AIDS, don't DIE of aids, they die of the flu or something else.
Lots of those deaths and such were also a LONG time ago - with advances in medical care, there would be none of those deaths.
I had measles as a child, I had mumps and whooping cough as well. Who knows WHY I got through it so easily, young, stong immune system, good food, good hygiene etc.
What about vaccines wearing off in the teen years, right when those illnesses become MORE serious, a small child with Mumps won't suffer much, but a teen - thats another story - why not get Immunity for LIFE by getting sick for a week and being done..?
Homesteadmom
Frugal Homesteader
My big concern is the Gardasil issue. Viruses do not cause cancer!
I have vacinated my children & ds#1 even got whopping cough too. He was sick for about a week & then he was fine. I do not however have my childrens teeth treated with flouride at the dentist. Ds#2 does not clean his teeth very well so I do take him in every 6 mos for a good cleaning, but no flouride. Where in the world did they get the idea that a by product of aluminum was good for us?
Did you know that alzheimer's patient's have a higher level of aluminum in their brains?
I have vacinated my children & ds#1 even got whopping cough too. He was sick for about a week & then he was fine. I do not however have my childrens teeth treated with flouride at the dentist. Ds#2 does not clean his teeth very well so I do take him in every 6 mos for a good cleaning, but no flouride. Where in the world did they get the idea that a by product of aluminum was good for us? Did you know that alzheimer's patient's have a higher level of aluminum in their brains?
patandchickens
Crazy Cat Lady
Actually a lot of cancers ARE caused by viruses, homesteadmom. And the evidence for cervical cancer being caused by certain strains of HPV virus is IMO pretty convincing.
(That said, nobody would be getting within ten miles of any daughter of mine [if I had any] with the HPV vaccine at this point -- I think its longterm safety is RADICALLY understudied, one might say 'basically unknown', at this point, and frankly I would want to SEE its empirical benefits too... :/)
My kids are vaccinated for the big old-timey killers -- polio, diptheria, etc. Measles too. The 4 yr old got the chicken pox vaccine b/c I was on the fence and DH wanted it, but the 1 yr old will not (although if he has not had chicken pox by the time he is a teenager I will take another look at the state of the vaccination research *then*).
But that's all. They are not vaccinated for anything else, none of this "everything under the sun" business that the medical and public-health communities push so hard. (Although if he were particularly vulnerable to a certain disease b/c of another health problem I would certainly consider the case on its merits and see if any other vaccine(s) seemed appropriate).
We don't generally "do" doctors, aside from routine checkups for the kids done mainly to acquire the abovementioned vaccinations and to pacify their silly father. Aside from a bout of bronchiolitis with some real trouble breathing, when Harry was about 1, neither kid has ever gone in for an illness. I certainly don't 'do' Drs myself, although I've gone twice for back/shoulder problems that were seriously interfering with my ability to get things done in hopes that there was some fix I didn't know about. (There wasn't
). And once for a heart problem during pregnancy. I DO think that modern medicine is good at some things and worth using (in a caveat emptor kind of way) when those things arise. I just think that it has an overwhelming tendency to stick its bossy nose in, in an awful lot of situations where it doesn't really know enough (or the right things) to *actually* improve the situation.
OTOH I do think, especially now that I am not 20 anymore, that there is value in an occasional checkup. If I had high blood pressure or high cholesterol or something else I couldn't detect myself, I would want to know about it. OTOH I consider it MY business how I would deal with that, not some doctors' to just tell me to take a buncha drugs for it :/
I am *profoundly* glad that Ontario foots the bill for midwife (not just ObGyn) care in pregnancy and birth -- I would have SO not gotten along with doctors for that, but with midwives it went pretty well. Harry was born in a hospital (paranoid DH) but with no nurses or doctors, the only people I saw after the admitting nurse were my midwives. And John was born at home, which was really great. If problems had arisen that a hospital could solve better than midwives -- and there really are some -- then I would have certainly gone to a hospital with doctors and all that, but fortunately that was not an issue.
JMO,
Pat
(That said, nobody would be getting within ten miles of any daughter of mine [if I had any] with the HPV vaccine at this point -- I think its longterm safety is RADICALLY understudied, one might say 'basically unknown', at this point, and frankly I would want to SEE its empirical benefits too... :/)
My kids are vaccinated for the big old-timey killers -- polio, diptheria, etc. Measles too. The 4 yr old got the chicken pox vaccine b/c I was on the fence and DH wanted it, but the 1 yr old will not (although if he has not had chicken pox by the time he is a teenager I will take another look at the state of the vaccination research *then*).
But that's all. They are not vaccinated for anything else, none of this "everything under the sun" business that the medical and public-health communities push so hard. (Although if he were particularly vulnerable to a certain disease b/c of another health problem I would certainly consider the case on its merits and see if any other vaccine(s) seemed appropriate).
We don't generally "do" doctors, aside from routine checkups for the kids done mainly to acquire the abovementioned vaccinations and to pacify their silly father. Aside from a bout of bronchiolitis with some real trouble breathing, when Harry was about 1, neither kid has ever gone in for an illness. I certainly don't 'do' Drs myself, although I've gone twice for back/shoulder problems that were seriously interfering with my ability to get things done in hopes that there was some fix I didn't know about. (There wasn't
). And once for a heart problem during pregnancy. I DO think that modern medicine is good at some things and worth using (in a caveat emptor kind of way) when those things arise. I just think that it has an overwhelming tendency to stick its bossy nose in, in an awful lot of situations where it doesn't really know enough (or the right things) to *actually* improve the situation.OTOH I do think, especially now that I am not 20 anymore
, that there is value in an occasional checkup. If I had high blood pressure or high cholesterol or something else I couldn't detect myself, I would want to know about it. OTOH I consider it MY business how I would deal with that, not some doctors' to just tell me to take a buncha drugs for it :/I am *profoundly* glad that Ontario foots the bill for midwife (not just ObGyn) care in pregnancy and birth -- I would have SO not gotten along with doctors for that, but with midwives it went pretty well. Harry was born in a hospital (paranoid DH) but with no nurses or doctors, the only people I saw after the admitting nurse were my midwives. And John was born at home, which was really great. If problems had arisen that a hospital could solve better than midwives -- and there really are some -- then I would have certainly gone to a hospital with doctors and all that, but fortunately that was not an issue.
JMO,
Pat
