Obama finally called them out

[patandchickens]

And since a majority of current diseases can be traced to diet and lifestyle...even if we could...SHOULD WE? If you really want to solve the health care crisis, how about stopping farm subsidies that make carbohydrates artificially cheap? How about admitting that the dietary recommendations over the last 30 years have caused WAY more harm than good and were based on junk science to begin with?

While I don't actually disagree with you in a "perfect world" sense, at least in general, I also just have to say, be VERY careful what you wish for (in a 'chinese curse' kind of way )

Nutritional knowledge is always changing, and fads come and go, sometimes for spurious market-driven reasons and sometimes for genuine seemed-like-a-good-idea-at-the-time reasons. (Plus, it is *just barely possible* that even today's state of the art knowledge is incomplete and partly wrong)

How hard do you REALLY want to see the gov't pushing a particular theory of what's good for us? What if, 20 or 40 or 80 years ago, they had been even more vigorous in pushing (say) the pasteurized milk industry, or factory-farmed red meat, or chemically-enhanced highly-processed foods?

When the gov't (at any level) gets a bug up it's butt about What Is Healthy For People, they already tend (IMHO) to run somewhat amok with the idea... do we really want them doing it *more*?

Seems to me that education, slow though it is, is probably the better route. And letting people learn more about the subject and make up their own minds about what to eat.

I don't know as crop subsidies exist to promote carbohydrates as such, anyhow, it's kind of more complicated than that. That they tend to make grains, especially the ones that get heavily processed into simple carbohydrates, a higher proportion of peoples' diet is partly sort of a side effect, it seems to me.

Nobody is ever going to officially admit that 30 years of "eat less fat and meat, eat more rice and potatoes and pasta" backfired... imagine the legal ramifications

Pat

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT!

That's why under my plan, individuals will be required to carry basic health insurance - just as most states require you to carry auto insurance.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

So will this make everyone happy? being forced to carry basic health insurance? Is this really what people want?

I can barely afford my vehicle insurance now, and so now we're going to be forced to have health insurance???

Do we no longer have a voice in this? Are we all just going to sit back and let the goverment make health decisions for us?

Well, if that's what ya'll want, I hope you're really happy with it.

So if the goverments going to pay for it, I betcha they are going to make everyone quit smoking, drinking, etc....and any other "bad behaviors" that could possibly damage your health...you know, because we the people are supposed to pay for the Goverments bad decisions but they will not pay for ours.

Yea, but it's not about control. Nope not at all. We're all just scaremongers and right wing liars. No reason to be scared. Nope not at all.


Speak for yourselves. I'm scared to death.

 

[FarmerChick]

An interesting take on the whole 'drawing the line in the sand' issues and scaremongering, among other things.

(Hey, I figure, if no one is going to pay any attention to what others are actually saying, I can do the same thing, too).

Hey didn't I say that......are you picking on me or something..LOL-LOL

I don't know what is going on

 

[SKR8PN]

The Cash for Clunkers is PRIME example of why we do NOT NEED the government running our health care system.

"The administration blew 58% of the C4C money on overhead, leaving only 42% for the dealers and the car buyers. It amounts to $1.36 of administrative cost for every dollar in subsidies granted, a terrible conversion price for even Obamas idea of redistributionism."

 

[FarmerChick]

Quail---the thought (as I see it and interpret it) is that uninsured people cost the nations Billions of dollars. All dollars coming from our pockets...the tax payers. And this uncollectable money from uninsureds who can not afford the costs, means that all costs will stay high and taxes will always increase, etc. because the payers can not support the system of the uninsured anymore.

It doesn't work.

So --for the good of the whole---it is best everyone is insured.

just like car insurance.

If you drive, you need to be insured to take your responsibility and part in the control of costs.

If you live and are a citizen of this nation, you need to take responsibility and be medically insured to cover the cost controls of this nation.


The more uninsured people there are---the worse it becomes to afford insurance and to find low cost insurance.

There are close to 100 million people uninsured. That is ALOT!


(That is just how I interpret what "they" are saying)

BUT--woof--you made me think a bit here with your post. Thanks--

 

[FarmerChick]

hey pat

you are Canada right?

I am not good on Canadian medical.

Do you HAVE to be covered? Or can you even opt out of all your insurance plans??? Can Canadians be uninsured?

I don't know..just asking.

 

[reinbeau]

Quail---the thought (as I see it and interpret it) is that uninsured people cost the nations Billions of dollars. All dollars coming from our pockets...the tax payers. And this uncollectable money from uninsureds who can not afford the costs, means that all costs will stay high and taxes will always increase, etc. because the payers can not support the system of the uninsured anymore.

It doesn't work.

So --for the good of the whole---it is best everyone is insured.

just like car insurance.

If you drive, you need to be insured to take your responsibility and part in the control of costs.

If you live and are a citizen of this nation, you need to take responsibility and be medically insured to cover the cost controls of this nation.


The more uninsured people there are---the worse it becomes to afford insurance and to find low cost insurance.

There are close to 100 million people uninsured. That is ALOT!


(That is just how I interpret what "they" are saying)

BUT--woof--you made me think a bit here with your post. Thanks--

The 'uninsured' (roughly 46.5 million people) can be insured for $100-150 billion. So why aren't we just doing that? While we fix all the waste and fraud we obviously know is going on, per Obama last night. For starters. Then see where we need to go from there. Far cheaper than what they are proposing.

 

[FarmerChick]

LOL Ann I got my numbers mixed up

100 million dollars...not 100 million uninsured.

well almost 47 mil is still alot --thanks for fixing that one for me!



How would we "just insure them" Ann

offer plans, or put them on a govt. system of Medicare?

Even if we find that money after cleaning up the system. What steps would be next to insure them?



YOU KNOW each state has Medicaid that offers coverage with a deductible. Based on income. BUT OF COURSE that income amt. is so low that I don't know who would qualify truly, and the ones that qualify I don't think could afford the premium for it...even though low cost????

 

[patandchickens]

hey pat

you are Canada right?

I am not good on Canadian medical.

Do you HAVE to be covered? Or can you even opt out of all your insurance plans??? Can Canadians be uninsured?

I am not certain about other provinces, I believe they are pretty similar in most respects, but as far as Ontario goes:

OHIP isn't really insurance (yeah I know the "I" stands for insurance, but, still). You are not required to sign up for it, or if signed up, use it -- but it would be kind of stupid not to (edited to clarify bad wording: obviously you have to sign up *in order to* use it, to prove you are a current legal Ontario resident; but I mean, nobody will go door to door and make sure that all current legal Ontario residents have a health card)

We are now paying a small yearly 'premium' that is rolled into April income tax forms -- those below a sort of middle-class income threshold pay nothing at all (on that particular line in the tax form), those who are comfortably middle-class pay $600/year, and it rises with income with I believe the maximum yearly amount being around $1200 or so. This is only as of the past few years, though -- previously, it was paid for out of tax money obviously but there was no specific 'add this to your taxes' amount. Personally I think the whole thing of having a separate tax form line for it is kind of bogus, since it was ALREADY being paid for out of tax money

You can't opt out of paying that amount with your taxes, btw, it is mandatory like any other aspect of income tax.

There are no other charges to the user however (except for services not covered under OHIP, like circumcision, physical exams for work or school purposes, doctors filling out paperwork for work or school, etc). And the coverage is really pretty comprehensive, although there is controversy about certain high-end or newer procedures that maybe 'should' be covered and about the wait times for certain particular procedures.

I have never heard of anyone just electing not to use OHIP; and it would be pretty difficult for most people as part of the OHIP thing is that privatized healthcare is for the most part prohibited. That is, private clinics cannot exist to charge cash-on-the-barrelhead for services that OHIP already provides. This is somewhat controversial and may or may not stay the same way in the future. One result is that rich people who are dismayed by having to wait in line for OHIP services sometimes go down to the States where they can pay retail price out of their own pocket for, like, a hip replacement or MRI or whatever.

There is also employer-provided insurance that you may get as a benefit with your job. I really do not know much about that other than basically it covers bits and pieces that OHIP does not -- for instance, my husband's plan will pay for a semiprivate room, various transportation that OHIP doesn't, offsets prescription costs, eyeglasses, etc.

As it stands, if a person wants a level of healthcare beyond what OHIP will cover, they can perfectly well get it provided they can afford to take time off, drive to a US clinic, and pay US clinic retail prices. Some people do this, usually because of wait time issues more than availability-of-procedure issues, but most either can't afford to or choose not to.

Pat

 

[FarmerChick]

Thanks --that gave me alot of info.

question

everyone pays on the tax part.....signed up or not signed up.

If not signed up.....where do you get heath care then? You say I have to go like to the states to get healthcare if I don't want to use OHIP? But is there any other options for health care at all? or is it OHIP or nothing?

BUT if I don't want to use it, (even if I pay)----how do I get medical help?

missed that part..LOL




And the OHIP stopped all clinics from treating their covered procedures etc. and that means they automatically kill any private competition? Yea that seems controversial to me too.