Obama finally called them out

[ducks4you]

I found the President's tone last compative. It should have been positive, persuasive, assuring critics that he has the WHOLE country's best interests at heart.

Health care is a BIG, COMPLICATED mess.

This mess began under President Johnson in the 1960's. Before that my parents took me to the doctor and paid out of pocket, just like when you pay your veteranarian. Yes, medical insurance was available, but Americans didn't expect the insurance company to foot their medical bills. The costs are out of mind, out of sight when the population is used to a 3rd party payer, kind of like college students whose parents are paying or whose loans haven't come due.

The biggest problems are: FRAUD, TORT abuse, denial due to preexisting illness--funny, life insurance has the inevitability of death for EVERYONE, but we are not denied it!--state/federal laws which forbid over-state competition.

How in the SAM HILL are these doctors and hospitals going to be paid IF we have government run health care? Have you ever asked anyone in Great Britain or Canada How M U C H of their tax money comes out of their paychecks to pay for THEIR government health care?

You may have forgotten, but the leaders in Congress are NOT renewing the tax pullback that the previous administration passed. They were to become permanent until 2010--that is next January--but that's not gonna happen now, and our taxes WILL GO UP, and it won't be related to ANY health care reform.

What happened to the 800 suggested amendments proposed by the "other side"? Are you angry because health care wasn't tackled for the previous eight years?

One more thing: I support user taxes because it gives me a CHOICE to use or to NOT use. I will not have a choice about whether I pay to use health care under ANY of the 5 bills floating around Capitol Hill IF any type of public option is put into place. I grew up and still live in Illinois. There isn't Anything that the current administration--they are from Chicago, have you noticed--is saying that I haven't heard before out of the Mayor's administration. Same rhetoric, gotta be same game plans. Chicago is broke. Think about it...

 

[patandchickens]

Reinbeau, healthcare is ALREADY essentially 'rationed', in the sense that not all procedures/tests/treatments are available to everybody. (To put it very mildly).

There can never, ever, not in any universe, be enough money to give everybody in the country unlimited medical coverage. It's just not one of the possibilities.

Thus, some people will always be going without some amount of care that could otherwise have changed or saved their lives.

That's the way it is with the current system dominated by private insurers; that is equally the way it is when there's a national healthcare scheme that covers everyone.

The difference is simply in WHO goes lacking in WHAT... do some people go lacking in basic care, or do some people go lacking in high-end care?

Except it's not even really that simple. It's not a dichotomy between those two extremes -- there are a variety of inbetween strategies possible, where the gov't picks up basic healthcare for everyone (for varying definitions of 'basic') but people who can afford to can purchase private insurance to cover more tests/procedures/treatments/hospitalization/etc. This is not as straightforwardly wonderful as it may sound, as it tends to encourage gradual erosion of the nationally-subsidized standard of care, particularly if it involves having two tiers of doctors as well. But there are lots of pros and cons and it is certainly a whole big class of option to consider, and I was under the impression that was what WAS being discussed for the US, at one point anyhow (I've kind of lost track of the plan du jour by now)

Pat

 

[FarmerChick]

I thought he was not "combative" but drawing the line in the sand!!

We as citizens needs someone to do that....to make change happen.

I say lets see some real personalities....if pushed by the President, lets see how our senators and congressmen ACT. Lets see what they will do under real pressure.

Sometimes shaking things up shows the good cream to rise to the top.
Might be interesting...

 

[Wifezilla]

There can never, ever, not in any universe, be enough money to give everybody in the country unlimited medical coverage.

Exactly.

And since a majority of current diseases can be traced to diet and lifestyle...even if we could...SHOULD WE?

If you really want to solve the health care crisis, how about stopping farm subsidies that make carbohydrates artificially cheap? How about admitting that the dietary recommendations over the last 30 years have caused WAY more harm than good and were based on junk science to begin with? How about getting rid of the ridiculous laws that make healthy, local food way more expensive than something shipped half way around the world?

 

[reinbeau]

I'd appreciate it if I wasn't constantly called out in these threads. I'm not addressing anyone specifically, just because I'm the most vocal voice from the right here doesn't mean all comments and arguments need to be directed solely at me.

 

[patandchickens]

I'd appreciate it if I wasn't constantly called out in these threads. I'm not addressing anyone specifically, just because I'm the most vocal voice from the right here doesn't mean all comments and arguments need to be directed solely at me.

I'm not sure to what extent you're talking to me, but since I was the most recent person to mention your name, I will comment --

"All comments and arguments" are obviously not directed solely at you. Very few are, actually. But yes, of course *some* - that is what happens when you participate in a discussion, people sometimes speak to you

If I use a person's name, it's because I'm replying to something that *they specifically* said. Everybody does that at times, w/r/t everybody else. So do you, even. It is simply common sense. Otherwise it is awfully hard to have a multiperson discussion.


Pat

 

[Big Daddy]

If a company drops insurance coverage then the employee can get the public option which will probably be better than what they had anyway.

What is wrong with Medicaire/Medicaid? It will have funding problems in about 12 years. When this plan goes in to effect it will solve the problem.

Obama wasn't combative enough. I'm glad he finally spoke out against all the lies being told by the right. He should have had Rush and Beck and Hennity and Medved and all the other hacks that are spreading the lies. It should be illegal to flat out lie like they do on the public airwaves. Too many people are too gullible for that stuff. The same thing should go for campaign commercials.

 

[reinbeau]

An interesting take on the whole 'drawing the line in the sand' issues and scaremongering, among other things.

(Hey, I figure, if no one is going to pay any attention to what others are actually saying, I can do the same thing, too).

 

[Wifezilla]

What is wrong with Medicaire/Medicaid?

I covered it all here....
http://www.examiner.com/x-798-Denve...Government-Health-Care-Hard-to-Swallow-Part-1

I also included the VA in that piece.

Like I said before, when the gooberment figures out how to properly run medicare/medicaid, the VA and the IHS...THEN come talk to the country about running the rest of health care.

And this isn't a left vs right thing either. They have had the IHS for 200 or so years. It SUCKS regardless of who is in charge.

DEAR GOVERNMENT,

FIX WHAT YOU HAVE ALREADY GOT BEFORE ASKING FOR MORE.

K THNX BI

 

[ohiofarmgirl]

And since a majority of current diseases can be traced to diet and lifestyle..?

wifezilla - i'm so glad you said this!!! i've been thinking about this all darn day.

but

there is something to be afraid of... the onion ring police!! what if they formed a special brute squad and sent them out to catch folks in the act of eating onion rings! yikes! do you think they'd have a show like cops?

fast food fast food
whatcha gonna do
fast food fast food
when the come for you....

;-)