Presidential Debate--who watched?

[reinbeau]

And again I'll say if you're on a self-sufficiency forum you really shouldn't be looking for anyone to take care of you.

Like Zenbirder I do not think that anyone on this forum, certainly not a moderator, should really be telling other people what they ought to think in order to qualify to be here.

Where did I say that anyone should or should be here? I'm merely stating my opinion, and moderator or not, I am entitled to it. I'm not banning anyone or locking posts. I really don't think you should be telling me how I can post.

If there is some ideological test ya have to pass to be here, then I am so outta here. (I know there isn't, I'm just saying, if there *became* one...)

No one said there was, nor did my statement above say any such thing.

I will repeat what I said before -- honestly Reinbeau I have no idea what your reply at the time was supposed to mean, sorry -- I do not think that the concepts of 'government' or 'self-sufficiency', or the issues involved in either one, are NEARLY as simple as all that.

We ALL depend on other people for some things. It is merely a question of who and what.

Pat

I think what I posted was fairly simple to understand. I don't see the desire for bigger and bigger government at all compatible with self sufficiency. And I frankly can't understand anyone who thinks otherwise. All the verbage in the world isn't going to change that. I am a conservative in the true sense, I take care of myself and my own (my own may encompass many things, not just my possessions and my immediate family) and I don't appreciate the government interfering in that. I am also a Constitutionalist and think that both parties have strayed very far from what the founding fathers had in mind when writing it.

Now, if you think my moderation duties negate my ability to post, then please tell Rob and I'll remove myself as moderator. In the meantime I will continue to politely voice my opinions as I see fit. Perhaps you'd like the job of moderation? Think about it.

 

[reinbeau]

Sorry, I try to stay out of political debates, but I just have some thing to add the the Canadian healthcare system.

In the states, if you do not have healthcare, and say you chop a finger off--hospitals will send you away if you can't afford to pay. Or if you have HMOs, you have to go to a certain hospital-to a certain dr., correct?

No, that isn't correct in many states. Here in Massachusetts everyone is entitled to health care, and even before Mitt Romney hospitals could not turn you away if you had 'cut your finger off'. Yes, if you belong to an HMO then you do have a circle of doctors and hospitals you can attend, but it's easy enough to get a referral if you want to go out of the circle.

I like our health care insurance just fine, then again, we pay good money to have health insurance that covers us all year, even when my husband is laid off. I absolutely do not like the thought of national health care, given how badly the government has loused up this bailout (just for example), what a huge mess Medicare and Medicaid is, and how much of our money they are already spending I really don't want to give them another dime.

 

[enjoy the ride]

Where I worked it, it was a common remark that being old or disabled did not confer sainthood. In otherwords, the poor, old, sick or whatever are not made any better morally than the general population by their condition.
Just recently I was talking to someone about the complaints that no one told the "poor" about the effect of variable interest rates when the got their mortgage. We both agreed that at best, they didn't bother to llook at the first page of the document they signed, or they don't want remember what they were told or they are making themselves look better by not telling the truth. That is how a lot of people live- looking at what they want to see and remembering what they want to remember.
The halo thing was just a gut response to what I saw as a post saying we were bad people for not caring for everyone- that the Canadian nation had not achieved "sainthood" by being Canadian. It was not a productiove comment and I went right back to delete it but not before you saw it- sorry.

 

[FarmerChick]

I also don't know much about the Canadian healthcare as in how dr.s are paid either. I just can not complain about our healthcare, where as I see problems iwth American healthcare on TV all the time. That being said--I don't wear a halo.

*******OH YES we got healthcare problems...LOL---no one can deny that. Just curious on the other type of systems out there and thought you might know.

I will google to get some idea about things---I hate to post about them if I don't know something ---well then again a little knowledge can be more dangerous..HA HA
thanks

 

[enjoy the ride]

Regarding the american media- if you listen to the public media about america, you would come away with the idea that most people are starving in the street with unmended broken legs while Paris Hilton parties with her drugged out firneds.
Too much sensationalism and a media that does not concern itself with getting right as much as getting the attention.
This year I saw a story in the local paper with an interview of a person I knew was lying because he happen to be my neighbor and I KNEW what was going on. So I emailed the reporter who I was under the impression did not know what I did. The reporter's response was that it was his job to report what the man said not to figure out whether it was true. The man was responsible for his word- the reporter was not responsible for putting an untruth into print.
Such lack of morals about it was surprising to me and has changed what I believe from every media. I knew reports got it wrong alot because the few things I really knew about were mis-reported. I never knew they didn't care what was true.

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

OK, this has nothing to do with the title of the thread, but I just want to say that I really like everyone here, I enjoy being able to come here and talk to everyone about what my husband and I are doing to become self sufficient.

Having said that, I think at some point during this thread I may have offended members by emphatically stating my opinions. For that I apologize, and I hope those that were offended will not think less of me.

And now, I respectfully ask that maybe we should consider locking this thread? I know we don't want locked threads, we enjoy bantering with eachother, but I see this going down the drain.

reinbeau, I think you are doing a wonderful job as our moderator, and you are entitled to your opinion.

I think too many of us are getting ourselfs in a dander about things posted on here (myself included) and I would hate to see this thread sour any of the friendships many of us are working hard to build with eachother.

I truly hope you all have a wonderful and blessed day!

 

[ScottyG]

VT-Chicklit, you have it so right, but not many think the way we do. They want big daddy Government to take care of them. And again I'll say if you're on a self-sufficiency forum you really shouldn't be looking for anyone to take care of you.

And again I'll say, it is no more self-sufficient to pay money into a big for-profit insurance corporation than it is to pay money into taxes. The only difference in the two is who gets my money.

And neither has any effect on my lifestyle. Neither the private company nor the government plan requires that I go to a doctor if I don't want to go to a doctor.

How does it affect my self-sufficiency in any way that I'd prefer to pay money into a not-for-profit program with government oversight and guaranteed coverage to all regardless of pre-existing conditions, instead of paying money into a for-profit, privately run program that can deny coverage to anyone without legal recourse?

...Unless you're suggesting ditching the healthcare system all together, and performing my own surgeries at home, mixing my own drugs from household items, delivering my wife's babies myself, and hoping my child never gets sick enough to need a doctor. Now that would be self-sufficient. Though also, I think, extremely foolish.

Another thing I keep seeing here is the idea that we're all covered because Emergency Rooms take everyone. Well, great, I'll tell that to my friend on HIV medication. Stop paying $1000 a month, because you're already covered! No more medicine for you, and you'll get horribly ill to the point of almost dying, but when you're about to die, you can TOTALLY get taken care of in an emergency room.

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry for the sarcasm. Don't mean to be harsh. Actually, I find this discussion very interesting and well-said by all. I just meant to say that long-term care for chronic illnesses are one example of how emergency room coverage is FAR from a solution.

 

[reinbeau]

And now, I respectfully ask that maybe we should consider locking this thread? I know we don't want locked threads, we enjoy bantering with eachother, but I see this going down the drain.

Aly, Rob and I have already discussed the fact that things here aren't going to be quite as controlled as over on BYC, we don't see a huge influx of children, jokesters, etc. so discussions will go on as long as they remain civil. If everyone really wants this thread locked I'll do it, but I'd rather not.

reinbeau, I think you are doing a wonderful job as our moderator, and you are entitled to your opinion.

Thank you. I try. Unfortunately I do have opinions!

I truly hope you all have a wonderful and blessed day!

And I hope the same for all, too.

 

[miss_thenorth]

ETR--no harm done. I guess my response was in the form of defending our health care system to what VT-chicklit had said. I am well aware that our helthcare system is not perfect, but it is mor than adequate, and not jsut for the healthy. Being close to Detroit, we watch 90% american tv. News stories are filled with the injustices of the american health care system. I realize I don't experience the REAL system, my statement was also just a gut reaction to having our healthcare system bashed, when the american system is not 'all that wonderful' either.

 

[miss_thenorth]

Uh oh..said bashed again. My bad--not trying to startia war here......