Presidential Debate--who watched?

[patandchickens]

Where did I say that anyone should or should not be here?

Well,

if you're on a self-sufficiency forum you really shouldn't be looking for anyone to take care of you.

OK, sorry, perhaps I misunderstood. It sounded like you were saying that IF you are on this forum THEN you shouldn't <espouse certain political ideas>.

(Well actually that *is* what you said, but, perhaps you meant something else, like "how surprising it is to me that..." or something.) In which case I apologize.

I will repeat what I said before -- honestly Reinbeau I have no idea what your reply at the time was supposed to mean, sorry <snip>

I think what I posted was fairly simple to understand. I don't see the desire for bigger and bigger government at all compatible with self sufficiency. And I frankly can't understand anyone who thinks otherwise.

Just to clarify, I was actually referring to

I will say I'm surprised to read what I have hear in a self-sufficiency forum.

Just goes to show, life is full of suprises and often more complex than one expects Pat

And then there are those who make more complexity with their very existence

from a few pages ago on this thread.

Now, if you think my moderation duties negate my ability to post, then please tell Rob and I'll remove myself as moderator. In the meantime I will continue to politely voice my opinions as I see fit.

Oh c'mon, can't a person raise an eyebrow at the way things have gone? Obviously if I was going to complain about your actions as moderator, I would have done so and you would know about it

Isn't it possible for there to be a level of interaction *between* just sitting back being told that if I'm on this forum I shouldn't hold certain political positions, and going and complaining to Mommy?

I would hope so.

Peace, I hope,

Pat

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

To be honest, I didn't watch them last night. My hubby and I had a movie night instead.

Besides, if I keep inserting my opinion in here I might get myself fried yet

 

[patandchickens]

BTW, regarding the Canadian healthcare system, it should probably be pointed out that it only covers doctor/hospital/clinic type stuff -- it does NOT, afaik, cover medication.

So up here you still DO get the same sort of thing as in the States, where people with thousands of dollars worth of monthly prescriptions are losing their houses unless they have preexisting insurance coverage (privately or thru employee benefits or whatever).

Pat

 

[patandchickens]

I find it disturbing that self-sufficiency keeps being described as incompatible with care for other human beings. Doesn't anybody think about how lucky they are to have the health, strength, knowledge, land, support, resources or whatever it takes for you to be self sufficient while realizing that many other people do not have all those things? <snip> So, could we please have a discussion in which self sufficiency and care for others are allowed to dwell in the same sentence?

Well now I know who I'D vote for, for president, if it made any sense to use an internet forum username as a write-in vote

Wooo hooo, loud cheering, get out there and run for office, seriously!

Pat

 

[me&thegals]

Aww shucks. You made my day! I wouldn't think of touching that job with a 10-foot pole, though. Give me a garden full of pumpkins to wash and cure anyday

 

[Zenbirder]

I really don't think you should be telling me how I can post.

Now, if you think my moderation duties negate my ability to post, then please tell Rob and I'll remove myself as moderator. In the meantime I will continue to politely voice my opinions as I see fit. Perhaps you'd like the job of moderation? Think about it.

Well I don't want the job of moderator, because I am self aware enough to realize that one of my faults is being thin skinned. Having said that, I was actually trying to be the voice of an unofficial moderator. I didn't ask you to not post your views on the politics, but I was asking for you to consider that because you have the job of moderator you might want to emphasize "politely voicing your opinions" and help the tone of these posts remain informational and cordial as a community of people with vastly differing views.

I have learned a lot from hearing the opinions of others on these political views. I have even broadened my outlook to include some ideas, particularly protecting freedoms and rights for things I may not be in favor of, by respecting that this community has valuable members that don't always have my backgrounds or views. Being close minded can stunt your growth.

So glad you have health insurance. For us we are up against a broken system. When I was hurt last year I had the reality of the hospital charging me 60% more than they would bill the insurance company if I had one. Oh, they would cut me a discount deal if I pay in full up front. The way the system is set up now if you are poor it is fair justice to make you pay a lot more than if you are rich enough to pay up front or have health insurance. One small bag of salt water IV solution was $68, each and every time they changed it.

You know when you go to any other business you can find out costs ahead of time. In the hospital you have no say, and they can bill you whatever they like. The system is broken.

So you think a couple has to have one spouse go to work for a company that will help fund the health care for the family? I guess that means our family would not be nearly as self sufficient. DH is retired on SS and finally has medicare. The government paid a lot more to fix the things that were left unattended because he didn't have coverage for so many years than they would have paid for preventative medicine.

I am reminded of how some people view stay-at-home parents and Homeschool parents. If they do not bring in a paycheck they are not working or contributing members of society. They want you to exchange your work for money, then spend the money on food. When we cut out the cash in the middle and go work-makes-food our society is set up to view us as "less than". For example: No Health Insurance!!! Let's hope that the next president will guide us to as good a plan as can be had given the terrible mess of the system. I don't think any plan will be great, there is no way to fix the mess of bureauocracy (spelling???) in the health care system. There are too many problems with drug companies, liability etc. But we have to TRY to do something for those of us who don't have a spouse making us think the health insurance system doesn't need a governmental fix.

 

[Beekissed]

Can't leave you kids alone for a minute, can I?

or stuff a disabled child into nursing home when they want to go on vacation

Now, its my turn to take umbrage at a statement....

I don't know how many of you folks on here have to take care of someone 24/7...especially someone who cannot feed themselves or are incontinent of bowel and bladder. If you do not, you seriously should never, ever criticize these folks for needing a vacation! What you are describing is respite care and is a very good resource for people who experience caregiver exhaustion.

The alternative to this is to stuff this disabled child into a nursing home for all time and only visit when they think about it, or for appearances.

People who are constant caregivers don't get a break....ever....not even a weekend or a good night's sleep. Imagine having a baby that is totally dependent on you.....forever. Then imagine that baby also has seizures, or choking episodes or respiratory distress at any given moment. If they do have someone watch them for a day, or a couple of hours, they constantly have to worry about if its being done properly. These people are angels in my book and that is the God's honest truth. Give them any vacation they can get...I can guarantee they won't be enjoying it, because their heart is back at home in a nursing home being cared for by strangers. :/

Please keep in mind....not all folks on welfare are crooks or lazy, and not everything is as it seems, to people who don't have the misfortune to need government assistance. Its a common misconception that all people on government programs are lazy, lying, opportunistic leaches being paid for by the good citizens of the country.

Self-sufficiency is a luxury and any feelings of elitism invoked by being self-sufficient needs to be checked at the door....some folks can't get there no matter how hard they try, as their circumstances in life are different than ours.

 

[Homesteadmom]

Beekissed, I have to say thank you!:bouquet I have been sitting here biting my tongue while finishing reading this thread. I ws going to completely ignore the comment about stuffing the disabled into a home. I was a caregiver for my dmil for 7 yrs. At first she was mobile & I was just here for driving here to the store & Dr., and assist for thigns she could not physically do. As time went by & she eventually had a respitory failure & on a vent for 2 mos & in a nursing home for another 2 after before coming home in a wheelchair. I not only helped to clean her house during all this, I took on more responsibilty for her. As she finally became bedridden when I was about 5 mos PG(unexpected) I took on her total care except for the hospice nurses coming in to see her. I then had 2 houses to care for along with homeschooling ds#2 & expecting a baby on top of that. Luckily her sis came to visit when I had the baby & was here with her while I was in the hospital, but had to go home shortly after. Dh went back to work & I was alone during the day with 2 children & dmil. Once in a great while she needed the bedpan when the nurses aide was here, but usually it was a phone call to me just as I was starting something else. She also had a catheter & it got plugged from time to time, guess who changed it? ME!!! Here is an example of my day:
5:30 up with dh to get his lunchbox together & nurse baby & put her back down to sleep.
7am up to dmil's to fix her breakfast & fold yesterdays laundry. Get linens ready if it was a bath & bed day(MWF). Wash dishes, fill water pitcher, get her snacks ready for her bedside. Trade out books if she needed them. Take out the trash. Twice a week I also shook out her rugs & swept the floors. Even though she had a cleaning service that came in & cleaned I still had to clean behind them. Get anything else that she wanted out. And all the while have a conversation with her too. And every Tues., I had to refill her mediset for the week(4 daily slots).
About 9-9:30 I would be going back to my house & get breakfast for myself & children & if I had time shower & get dressed. Put a load of our laundry in the washer. Either fill or empty my dishwasher. And try to get some type of schoolwork done. And sometimes I would just get back to the house & the phone would ring(guess who?).
11:30 back up to dmil's house for lunch & on bath days put the laundry in the washer(she had MRSA so I washed everything each day). Refilled the water pitcher & any snacks she wanted. Usually another 1/2 hr involved.
Noon: feed myself & children lunch(remember breastfeeding so on demand). Maybe get a shower by this time sometimes not until ater 4 when dh got home. Straigten up house in some semblence. Schoolwork of some sort. All the while waiting for the phone to ring for another trip up there.
4:30 start supper & take it to dmil. Put laundry in the dryer. Fill water pitcher & get anything she had dropped out of the bed. Get things she decided she needed or wanted for the evening. Go back to my house & have supper with my family by 6 if possible.
7pm bath time for the children & kitchen clean up.
8:30 tuck dmil in as ds called it. Lock up her front door, give her her blankets for night time & make sure she has everything she might need for the rest of the night.
9pm I am dead tired & children to bed. I want to go to sleep but dh wants some time with me too, to talk or snuggle. Plus remember the load of laundry in the washer? I now can put it in the dryer & get the load out of the dryer to fold that was in there since yesterday. So maybe by 10:30-11pm I crawl into bed after all that is done.
Only to get up & do it all again the next day. The only day I got a break on this schedule was on Sun morn. dh would take care of breakfast so I could get ready for church.
We went to get our trailer off our property just a turn around trip over night & do you know how many phone calls we made to her to check on her? Too many to count. Dh's sis was here to take care of her but it was still our responsibility.
I took a trip to OK when dd was 2 1/2 mos old with my parents to testify in a family legal issue(really no choice). I was gone 3 1/2 weeks. Dh's older sis was supposed to stay here a night & take care of breakfast in the mornings before work(dh left at 6am). Psuedamonis(sp?) showed up in a urine test & the Dr ordered her into the Hospice care facility for 14 days. Never saw sis again after that. That was the fifth day I was gone. Then dh was on his own to take care of his dm & work 40 hrs a week too. I called everyday to check on her & felt guilty the whole time I was gone. As soon as I got back it was routine as usual the very next day. I only took one other weekend off & it was her last weekend here with us. What a fiasco that was with the sis's. 20/20 hindsite even as tired as I was I wish I had not asked them to come out.
So to put a person into respite care is a good thing. I wish I had known one organization we worked with for cleaning service provided it on a weekly basis so I could have gotten more time off. But oh well. WOuld I go back & do it all over again? YOU BET I WOULD!!!!

Sorry to rant, but it gets my goat when someone who has not walked that mile in my shoes makes those assumptions.

 

[enjoy the ride]

I am sorry to have offended people with a hard row to hoe. But the assumption that someone has not walked in your shoes because of this remark is not correct.
I truely was thinking of one specific case that was really an abuse and did not explain it very well. Respite care is something that is needed but this was not this situation- as I said I should have been more careful about this remark. But it so easy just to throw out half expressed thoughts when typing.
All the things I mentioned are things I have seen happen personally. And if there is one thing that always rankled me, it's watching a child being treated as a commodity.
Made me a little harder than is good I think.
I really do honor those who do this hard job.

 

[Beekissed]

I am sorry to have offended people with a hard row to hoe. But the assumption that someone has not walked in your shoes because of this remark is not correct.
I truely was thinking of one specific case that was really an abuse and did not explain it very well. Respite care is something that is needed but this was not this situation- as I said I should have been more careful about this remark. But it so easy just to throw out half expressed thoughts when typing.
All the things I mentioned are things I have seen happen personally. And if there is one thing that always rankled me, it's watching a child being treated as a commodity.
Made me a little harder than is good I think.
I really do honor those who do this hard job.

I think we know that, Enjoy! :bouquet You are true blue in my book!