Presidential Debate--who watched?

[Quail_Antwerp]

Am I the only one who thinks that maybe Obama is supposed to win the presidency in order for certain Biblical prophesies to be fulfilled?

Oh goodness I hope not!

But who knows? Maybe he's the anti-christ?


And reinbeau, remind me to NEVER get your shorts in a knot!

 

[Homesteadmom]

My one question in all of this - how can you be for self-sufficiency and also be for a big-government type like Obama, who wants to micromanage every aspect of your personal responsibility? The two just don't meet in the middle.

First off BOTH candidates are big government types. It is just the way politics have evolved in this country. They have to have huge taxes on both sides to pay for war, bailouts etc. There is no way either candidate would or could have small government. The distinctions are not as great as McCain voters would like them to be.

I would really like health care coverage, I have not been able to afford it. If I went and got a job I could get health insurance, but since I choose a low income labor intensive self-sufficient lifestyle, there is no coverage. I do not see McCain's plans working for me, if I don't pay much in taxes now I can't take much off them to get coverage. For me and others who are really low income to get covered we need a more comprehensive system. If you still have a spouse in the work force then you don't have to look at self sufficiency in the same way we do.

I don't want some of the powers turned back over to the states from being centralized. Ours is a diverse nation, but there are pockets of people in geographic areas who think more or less similarly about what they want for laws. This is why many of you want these rights turned back to the states. However, if you are a minority (lifestyle, beliefs, etc.) in one of these states you risk losing your nationally granted liberties. The national view has to be broader to incorporate all the diversity than the local views where a few "outsiders" can be put down as unimportant. A silly little example of this is that a state that was mostly cities could ban people from keeping chickens, even in the rural areas (and some might if bird flu got bad).

A not silly example is that states of mostly one religion could inact laws that impose some of their religeous beliefs on the minority who are not. I understand why this will be seen as a good thing from those in the majority, they believe so strongly that their way is the only truth. This is what scares me the most is that we, as a country and particularly in some locations, are losing tolerance for differences of faith. I think we have to be very careful in how we manage our government to allow for us to all live nicely as neighbors. There are some politicians at all levels of government who gain support by trying to impose one set of religeous values on the whole constituancy.

I think one commonality here is that we all seem to be trying to pick the lesser of the worst candidate.

The reason we want these rights turned back over to the states is that is what the constitution says we are to do. And by the constitution there can be no laws regarding religion, period!!! This seperation of church & state is bogus!!!!!! We do not have a seperation at all!! And anyone here on this forum really is a minority because we choose to live a SS as possible, some are more than others. With less government we are free to live that lifestyle as long as we choose to. As to healthcare an independent organization compared the 2 health plans & McCains actually helps over 31 million people get insurance coverage at no taxpayer's expense. Obama's requires more tax dollars from everyone! The average amount that will boost everyone's deductions under McCain is an extra $1500, after paying for your plan or taxing your employer paid benefits(more if you have more than 1 child).
Tolerance is taught at home. I believe that as the constitution says we have the freedom to worship as we choose here in this great nation. Under a "bigger Gov't" we will loose a lot of these choices.
Not only that Obama's plan is to eliminate the secret ballot too. So they(the gov't) will be able to know how you vote on issues in the future. There are even Dems who are opposed to that idea.

Beekissed, I have thought of the prophesies too. I have been researching them more & more. As I see no one listening to what the truth is behind Obama & treating him like he is a God or something. How about Louis Fharakhan(sp?) calling him "one of us" and "he is the Messiah"? That is scarry to me. I see the lies & deciet behind him & all the questionable associations. Especially with the muslims & it is just mind boggling to me how people still follow him.

To answer the other question about race I have no problem with him being half black, remember he is half white too(although he won't claim it). We have already had a few black presidents in this nations history(4 to be exact). One was one of the greatest presidents this nation has ever seen. I would vote for Colin Powell if he ran, Bill Cosby too! Condoleza to name a few. I do not think that race or gender should ever play a part in an election. But there are a lot of Obama supporters who are only voting for him because he is black & there are polls to back that up too.
Okay getting off the soap box.

 

[me&thegals]

Four black presidents?!? How did I miss that?

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

Four black presidents?!? How did I miss that?

I think she means presidential candidates maybe?

For me and others who are really low income to get covered we need a more comprehensive system.

Please, someone tell me WHEN did it become the goverments responsibility to provide us our healthcare?

I don't want the gov't to have ANY say in my healthcare. Our grandparents sure didn't worry about healthcare! They worked hard, saved money, and paid to go to the doctor out of pocket...they had individual responsibility for their health care.

If we put the government in control of our health, then they are going to tell you when/where/and why you can go to a doctor. I know too many people with HMO's who need meds or treatment, but the Insurance they have won't let them see certain doctors or undergo certain treatment because the insurance doesn't cover the procedures. Tell me, how good is that insurance for them?

Instead of paying for the insurance, how about banking that money, allowing it to draw interest (that is if our banks weren't failing!) and paying out of pocket for your care?

How much $ are we pouring into insurance companies anyway?????

Think about it!! Do you know how many new cars I could have purchased over the years with all the $ I have paid into automobile insurance? I could be driving my 20 year old van, tucking the money into a savings account, and IF (and I do mean IF!) I wrecked my car, it is HIGHLY possible the money would have been in the bank to cover it. OH THAT'S CALLED PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY AND GOD FORBID WE SHOULD HAVE THAT. LETS GIVE IT ALL TO THE GOVERMENT AND LET BIG BROTHER BE IN CHARGE OF EVERYTHING WE SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR.




eta: excuse me for a bit....I am going outside to hug a hundred chickens!

 

[me&thegals]

Just a few ER visits, an unexpected surgery or 2, and a few visits to the doctor would wipe out most people's life savings. Healthcare costs are insane, even for healthy families like mine. I doubt they were so out of control when our grandparents were young/alive. But, the reasons behind the rising cost of healthcare is enough for an entirely new thread...

Whether we want govt involved in certain areas or not, too many people seem to fall through the cracks without help from it. It would be great if we lived in a society that cared for its own elderly and valued all lives so much that we gave up our own luxuries to provide for others/ needs. But, we don't really do that so well in an organized way. So, we have Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, WIC, etc.

 

[Better Half]

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but there are more than 2 candidates running. There are actually 13 presidential candidates on our ballot here in IN. I was thinking of voting for Nader because I agree with most of his policies, but since I looked at the ballot, I realize I need to do some more research. I'm going to find the candidate that most closely represents my beliefs, and vote for them. I don't feel right about not voting, and I am SO SICK of holding my nose when I go to the polls, that I am NOT going to do it this year.

So true! The two major parties keep doing things we don't like because we keep voting for them. The people haven't given them any reason to change since what they do keeps working.

Has anyone read Ron Paul's book? It good and short, only 150 pages. If you don't believe the fact checker organizations maybe you'll believe Ron Paul. I heard he endorsed the Constitutional Party candidate Chuck Baldwin.

It is really nice to see a political discussion that hasn't devolved into name-calling. I wonder when everyone started taking politics so personally (not talking about you guys, of course!)

Yes, I love this stuff but I hate name calling and people taking stuff personally.

Obama's mother graduated for a local Seattle area school. His parents met in college in Hawaii. My DH's parents met the same way. Local girl sent away to college to protect her where she met a non-white man on a student visa.

 

[roosmom]

I watched a show last night on TLC or DISCOVERY called "the woman with no legs". DId anyone else see it?
This woman was born with legs, but because her mother had diabetes while pregnant, something was wrong with her legs. They decided to have them amputated when she was two. So she had nothing from, like her lower belly down.
ANYWAY. at one point in the program she said, "There is nothing I cant do, I do not feel like anyone owes me anything, why should they? It is not their fault I am like this. I am not handicapped, I am not disabled" It was very heartwarming to hear that from someone LIKE that.

QA, I pour $150 a biweekly into my ins. The hospital pays an additional $700 a month. So that is $1000 a month for insurance. Until I got MS, I never used it, never got mamms, Paps, Never got sick. I doctored myself.

 

[Homesteadmom]

No not candidates, actual presidents. I need to find my printout, but off the top of my head Lincoln was one. His birth mother was Ethopian, hence his nappy hair & skin color. I will try to find the printout & give you the other 3.

 

[Quail_Antwerp]

just wanted to say I hugged a few chooks, and my kids, feel better now...sorry for my last post on the subject! I was just feeling frustrated!

 

[ScottyG]

Before I post a little rant, I'd just like to express some confusion over the discussion of the candidates here. Can't we agree that McCain, Obama, Ron Paul, Ralph Nader, and the other presidential wanna-be people ALL want what's best for our country? You may think some or all of them are very wrong about what's best, as I'm sure we all do, but I think it's pretty clear that they all just want to make our country a great place. They just have different ideas on how to do it. So all this "prophesy of the end of the world" and "lies and deceit" and "destroy America" stuff just really bothers me. You might not like someone's ideas for helping our nation out, but do we really think they're trying to ruin our nation by being President? Seriously??

But getting back to my rant:

My one question in all of this - how can you be for self-sufficiency and also be for a big-government type like Obama, who wants to micromanage every aspect of your personal responsibility? The two just don't meet in the middle.

I don't see it as a conflict at all. I'm aiming for self-sufficiency because I want what's best for me and my family, and I think that 99% of the time, the best thing is the thing you do yourself, make at home, grow yourself, and have complete pride and ownership of. And I consider myself lucky that in my current state I'm able to pursue most of those goals, except the growing stuff part, as I don't own any land. (YET!) To those ends, I would like government to both stay out of my personal choices, and provide me and my fellow Americans the chance to pursue our loftiest goals.

In short, I believe we should have as many rights as possible, and also as much opportunity to achieve our dreams as possible. And this is why I'm proud to be liberal.

First, rights. It is clear to me that in recent years at least, the democratic party is much more interested in staying out of my private life, though neither party does as much as Id like in this arena. For instance, I want my daughter to have the right to a happy and fulfilled life if she turns out to be gay. I want the right for all prisoners to a fair trial. I support the right to own a gun, but I also want the right to walk down the street and not be afraid of getting gunned down by an Uzi, a weapon only sold for the purpose of murder and intimidation. I want the right for my wife to make decisions about her body based on her own beliefs, not the beliefs forced upon her by the government. I want the right to a private phone conversation. I want all prisoners to have the right to be treated with respect, not tortured. And so on.

And then, opportunity. I believe that we all deserve good medical treatment if we get sick, regardless of economic situation. I believe we all deserve an excellent education for our children. I believe we all deserve well-policed communities, fire departments that respond promptly, roads that dont destroy our vehicles...

This does not negate my desires for self-sufficiency. Paying taxes does not allow the government to intrude in my personal life. Im not advocating health care that forces me to go for checkups even when Im not sick (and neither is Obama) but the opportunity for that healthcare to be available regardless of my finances. I dont want the government to force me into public education, but I want that public education to be excellent if I choose to use it. I suppose along the same lines, I dont plan on using every road the government maintains, but Id like the roads to be maintained for my fellow citizens. I want our prison system to be well-maintained and strict but compassionate for those who wind up there.

And Im willing to pay taxes for all these things. Heck, Ill even go ahead and even agree with Joe Bidens mis-spoken statement that taxes are patriotic because I also believe firmly that you can judge a society by how it treats its poorest members, and I am very willing to pay taxes on my income to support my less fortunate countrymen and women, and know that such a support network will be there should the same fates ever befall me.

Again, this does not change my self-sufficiency one bit. I want the government to stay out of my rights. And I want the government to provide the opportunity for me and my family to succeed no matter what our economic situation is, but NOT to force me into anything I don't want. The only difference between you and I is that Im willing to do all that on a smaller percentage of my income, because I believe in taxation. I believe in helping out our fellow citizens with services that will allow them to pursue the same dreams Im pursuing. I believe that it is an excellent moral decision to help out those less fortunate than me with a portion of my income. But money is not the point of self-sufficiency anyway. In fact, some of my self-sufficient choices were made to enable me to pay those taxes to help out my fellow citizens, and Im happy with that.

These are not popular opinions, perhaps, but then I imagine many of us here have unpopular opinions. And there are of course other issues in my voting plans (the war in Iraq, for instance) but Ive already gone on too long. Pardon the long rant!