So pitch your theory!

VT-Chicklit

Lovin' The Homestead
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
302
Reaction score
0
Points
94
Location
Lake Champlain Islands
Pat, I have no problems living without imported fruits and veggies. I have no problems with not having cheaply made stuff imported from China. Unfortunately, that is not what our government is pushing. I, for the most part, believe in supporting American industries first. I only stray from this when there is a HUGE difference in cost or if an American made equivalent cant be found. I wish our government would promote this. It would save energy and keep the jobs here in the US.

It is unfortunate that "buy America first" is not what they are promoting. They are directly attacking our sources of electricity WITHOUT a viable alternative. I, at this time, do not find solar or wind a viable alternative. The reason that I say this is because there are logistical difficulties with putting this new infrastructure in place and it is cost prohibitive for most Americans to do it on their own. It is inconvenient that everyone does not want to co-operate and allow these windmills and solar arrays to be erected but they have a right to their opinion and a judicial system that they can use as their bully pulpit. These issues will be tied up in the courts for years, and in the mean time the average citizen will be the group hurt by these HUGE increases in energy costs. I find it ironic that the people who are pushing Cap and Trade (Al Gore, Pres. Obama, Nancy Pelosi et al) have no problem with jet setting all around the country and the world. Their carbon foot print for one of these trips is larger than I would ever dream of producing in a year. Many of these trips are totally un-necessary. Trips from Washington DC to Chicago for a Valentines Day dinner for 2, Trips across the country for a photo-op in front of a windmill as a speech is given, entourages in full sized SUV's (I am not talking about the pres. either), large houses, flights from coast to coast almost every weekend etc show me that they do not plan on paring down their carbon footprint the way that they are going to force us to through tax. It seems a bit disingenuous, don't you think.

Many of us have cut back due to increased costs. My electricity is not subsidized as some have stated. I currently pay 14 cents a KWH and believe me when I say "we do not waste electricity". My fuel oil is not subsidized either. I have just paid $2.30 a gallon and have filled up our tank for the year (400 gal). We keep our thermostat at 58 degrees and burn wood to supplement. I am sure that the wood I am burning puts out more carbon than the fuel oil but the REALITY is it costs me less and in this economy, cost matters. We live in a rural area and need cars to get around and to plow our road. I would love it if there was a bus system that came out here, but it is not cost effective, so we drive. I consolidate trips and go into town once or twice a week, depending on my mothers doctor visits. DH works for the courts and his job is 35 miles each way every day.

The food that is produced in the US is very carbon intensive. From the fertilizers that we use, to the equipment that cultivates and harvests and then to the mills that process or otherwise packages the food for shipment around the world. I believe that this Carbon Tax will probably have unintended consequences elsewhere in the world. We provide a lot of the food to other countries that are less fortunate than us. I get concerned that we will no longer be able to provide this food and others will starve. Possibly even some Americans, here. When the government gets so deeply involved into picking winners and loosers in commerce, there are always "unintended consequences" Usually these consequences are not good.

A lot rides on a smooth transition from fossile fuels to other alternatives. I do not believe that an adequate foundation has been laid for that smooth transition.
 

Wifezilla

Low-Carb Queen - RIP: 1963-2021
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
8,928
Reaction score
16
Points
270
Location
Colorado
When the government gets so deeply involved into picking winners and loosers in commerce, there are always "unintended consequences" Usually these consequences are not good.
BINGO!
 

Wifezilla

Low-Carb Queen - RIP: 1963-2021
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
8,928
Reaction score
16
Points
270
Location
Colorado
it really bothers me when people speak like that about Third World countries and their living conditions. In some respects, you know, many are one big heckuva lot better off than the USA
I just read an article about widows in Afghanistan living in abject poverty because they are banned from holding jobs and no longer have husbands to take care of them. Couple that with the number of people trying to get IN (legally or illegally) to this country, you can see where I come up with my WACKY ideas :p
 

me&thegals

A Major Squash & Pumpkin Lover
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
3,806
Reaction score
9
Points
163
Location
central WI
I don't think anybody has been calling anybody wacky. :p I think the point is that having stuff is obviously not ALL that North America is about. America used to be about taking the initiative on the really big stuff. I'd love to see us stop dragging our heels and lolling way behind everybody else regarding this environmental stuff. I'd like to see us make big bucks and earn respect by acknowledging how much better we could do in this aspect. I think it would be amazing for personal and national economies.

Pat, I SO agree on consumerism. I just about go nuts when I now see not only endless Christmas decorations but Halloween lights, Thanksgiving lights, Easter lights and--I kid you not--V-day decorations and lights.

The places where many of us could cut back are truly endless. Without losing lights or electricity.

VT--I live out in the country, too. I do my best to walk or bike as much as possible, but of course you and I are not going to get mass transit. I think planning needs to focus on major metropolitan centers, since that's where most energy is used. You and I can keep doing all we do to keep our use down and hang in there, hoping and waiting for clean energy from our utilities. Until then, I will keep wood heating, hanging my clothes up all year round, growing food for local consumption, hanging onto my really old 40 mpg car, and so on.

And coal IS subsidized by the gov't. I think nuclear, too, but it's been a while since I heard about that. Our cost is not their actual cost, not to mention all other risks associated with them.
 
Joined
Jan 24, 2009
Messages
1,020
Reaction score
0
Points
114
me&thegals said:
I don't think anybody has been calling anybody wacky. :p I think the point is that having stuff is obviously not ALL that North America is about. America used to be about taking the initiative on the really big stuff. I'd love to see us stop dragging our heels and lolling way behind everybody else regarding this environmental stuff. I'd like to see us make big bucks and earn respect by acknowledging how much better we could do in this aspect. I think it would be amazing for personal and national economies.

Pat, I SO agree on consumerism. I just about go nuts when I now see not only endless Christmas decorations but Halloween lights, Thanksgiving lights, Easter lights and--I kid you not--V-day decorations and lights.

The places where many of us could cut back are truly endless. Without losing lights or electricity.

VT--I live out in the country, too. I do my best to walk or bike as much as possible, but of course you and I are not going to get mass transit. I think planning needs to focus on major metropolitan centers, since that's where most energy is used. You and I can keep doing all we do to keep our use down and hang in there, hoping and waiting for clean energy from our utilities. Until then, I will keep wood heating, hanging my clothes up all year round, growing food for local consumption, hanging onto my really old 40 mpg car, and so on.

And coal IS subsidized by the gov't. I think nuclear, too, but it's been a while since I heard about that. Our cost is not their actual cost, not to mention all other risks associated with them.
Oil companies make huge profits and still get govt subsidies. It's kind of a reverse cap and trade.
 

VT-Chicklit

Lovin' The Homestead
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
302
Reaction score
0
Points
94
Location
Lake Champlain Islands
My electric is NOT subsidised by our government! The Champlain Islands gets their electricity mainly from Canada. Our Co-op has contracts with Canadian electricity producers. That is why my costs are so high. If we were getting our energy from Vt's only Nuc plant or from Burlington's wood chip plant, it would be cheaper much cheaper!

In my town there is litteraly no place to walk to. I do own a bike, but nothing is close enough to bike to either though we bike to get exercise. We are an island of about 450 year around residents, with a small post office, small dirty general store, and a creamee stand. We have NO grocery store within 20 miles, a small rural clinic that is 15 miles away and a gas station that is 15 miles away. I live in a beautiful area out in the middle of no where! This is not that unusual in VT. The closest big town of 5000 is about 20 miles from me in New York and that is also the closest supermarket.

My car gets 38 miles to the gallon and is a 2003. Our plow truck is a 1994 Chevy S10 that is no longer road worthy, that is why it now plows our private road only. We also have a 1996 (?) Toyota Corolla that DH drives to work daily. She has over 220,000 miles on her but she is still going strong. We also have a 2 year old Dodge Dakota that we use to haul things with. I suppose that we could do without the Dakota, but hauling things like 15 bales of hay or lumber would be impossible and we need both and more. The Dakota will become our plow truck when the S10 finally gives up the ghost. Plowing up here would cost us $75 each time that we are plowed and we plowed at least 8-10 times this past winter. It would be very costly if we did not do it ourselves.

It is easy for those who are not living your life to judge your lifestyle. It is not so easy for them to live your lifestyle.
 

me&thegals

A Major Squash & Pumpkin Lover
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
3,806
Reaction score
9
Points
163
Location
central WI
VT--I hope you didn't think I was judging your lifestyle. I'm not! It sounds an awful lot like mine :) That's why I think a lot of energy change in America needs to happen in the metropolitans areas--it just makes more sense.

I didn't realize you got electric from Canada. I guess ours is cheaper here since it is subsidized.
 

FarmerChick

Super Self-Sufficient
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
11,417
Reaction score
14
Points
248
funny thing is it is "almost too little too late" on saving the planet.

what has happened is extreme to the environment and there will only be more and more people using the resources.

what should have happened is about 100 years ago we should have conserved instead of "boomed" into greedy use of resources......I don't know if there will be an easy recovery for the future. future generations are in for a huge mess and survival is slim literally in the long term from what I see.

But in general, any change helps...at least it is a change and I can say I did my part. Sad, but no one truly ( govt. and public) truly cares or they would be making real changes. Even mandatory changes "before" it is too late, which it is "almost' too late already for a real decent future without so many pollutants and extinctions etc. etc.

just chatting in general......

but you know also, money rules the world. shame but true and it could be our downfall definitely.

money won't buy a new planet, clean water if there is none, clean air to breathe, etc. etc. Maybe mankind should realize that.

who wants to change their lifestyle dramatically...no one.

Hmm....we'll see....well, maybe not me, but my kids, kids will know....
 

DrakeMaiden

Sourdough Slave
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
2,421
Reaction score
6
Points
148
I agree with you FarmerChick, I think it is already too late now. I'm just glad I don't have kids. I don't have to feel bad about what they may suffer.

But even though I think it is too late, I still try to do my part. Just in case. One never knows.
 

FarmerChick

Super Self-Sufficient
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
11,417
Reaction score
14
Points
248
DrakeMaiden said:
I agree with you FarmerChick, I think it is already too late now. I'm just glad I don't have kids. I don't have to feel bad about what they may suffer.

But even though I think it is too late, I still try to do my part. Just in case. One never knows.
yea it is sad!!

I think it is too late for long long term survival. but ---like you said---just in case it isn't ---I am doing my part...LOL


I saw a show on the Orca whales. their PCB levels were huge and it is messing with their DNA and baby survival etc. is very low.....it showed the water supply (the oceans) are under huge contaminations, etc. etc.........I guess it just made me think...WOW...you know. Just too much crap for the environment to handle at some point.....UGH
 
Top