So pitch your theory!

[me&thegals]

Wow. Are you saying we have no problems with landfills, polluted rain, loss of topsoil across the midwest and southwest, air pollution in large cities and populated countries, issues with fossil fuels (pollution, securing them, transporting them, political fallout) and an exploding population?

So maybe earth has not been wiped out. But I'd say 10,000,000 children starving to death each year, the cancer rate, filling of streams and ditches with topsoil from fields, wars in oil-rich lands and massive loss of drinkable water in America and around the world are just a few things that stand out in my mind as not being A-okay regarding all those dire predictions. I personally think it's sucky that I can only occasionally feed my kids the fish we catch around here due to pollution. And I think it's really sucky that women in the great north (Arctic circle?) can't breastfeed because their breastmilk is toxic from such prolonged exposure to our air pollution hovering over their lands.

Could it possibly be that some changes were made back when those predictions were aired to help prevent their occurrence from reaching the catastrophic levels predicted?

And, even if you don't think the worst will happen, does it not seem a bit on the safe, smart, cautious side to be a bit careful anyway?

 

[FarmerChick]

these aren't asteriod predictions and such ....this is chemical destruction etc. of resources. if no real big time change, the inevitable will happen. death of resources...simple as that. tomorrow, no, but yes, it will happen. you can't deny it truly.

I am not talking about asteriods...I am talking about....

The great top soil crisis
The acid rain crisis
The population crisis
The air pollution crisis
The landfill/garbage crisis
The ice age crisis
The fossil fuel crisis (Jimmy Cater era version)

These are just the ones I can remember off the type of my head. All of these were supposed to have wiped out civilization 20-30 years ago.

"They" might have gotten the timing wrong...but the facts are real. It will happen cause death to resources is death to all life. No way around it. And it is happening now...maybe not the "big bang" type "in your face" situation......but the results are being seen and are facts.

So all those things you listed...not a one would happen overnight at all or in a shorter type span....but they will destroy in the future.

 

[Big Daddy]

Americans are slow to learn. When I was growing up we actually used to toss our trash out the window of our cars. Yeah people always did that. It was as common as can be. There were no trash cans for public use. McDonalds was a new concept and you just threw the bag with wrappers out the window. Then Lady Bird Johnson started a big program to clean up America.

We have always used and wasted extensively. I'm embarrassed to think what some other countries think of us. I hated the 4.00 a gallon gas last summer, but it did one good thing. It got Americans to conserve. That's what it takes to get Americans to conserve. Hit them in the wallet. Sorry but true. Europeans know what it's like. When I was in Germany in 81 the general public paid 6.00 a gallon for gas. We Army people got to buy coupons for 1.25 a gallon. Of course we were limited, but I never ran out of coupons.

If Bush says there's no global warming or pollution then it must be so. That's why CAFE standard requirements were extended. SUV's were exempt. If we would have enforced standards then the big three might have more fuel efficient cars now and be more competitive in the world market. If Reagan would've encouraged development of alternative energy instead of trash canning it we may be further ahead now. All of our leaders have been short sighted and geared to now. Few have had the foresight to try to prepare us for the future. Lets hope we started a trend by electing Obama and that our next leader from either party will continue to look to the future instead of just taking advantage of the present to line their pockets.

Lets hope that other leaders will try to convince their followers that things like global warming does exist and quit putting forth charlitans to lie and distort the facts.

 

[me&thegals]

Actually, even Bush admits to climate change now.

edited for rudeness

 

[Wifezilla]

ooookkkaayyyyyyyyyy

 

[VT-Chicklit]

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. There is nothing that any of us can do that does not impact something on this earth. The fox hunts and a rabbit dies. Too many fox in an area, the rabbit population becomes almost extinct. When this happens many of the foxes die. The Rabbits then start to increase in number which then increases the fox population. It is a natural process. With checks and balances that we only have limited understanding of. Only man is arrogant enough to think that he can permanantly effect nature in an adverse way. We worry so much about permanantly changing the earth that we loose sight of the real issue which is good steward ship. Temperatures have risen and fallen many times during the geological life of the earth. There are many cycles that science has yet to fully understand.

It is odd that many who support this whole global warming thing also believe in evolution which is "survival of the fittest". We decended from apes because of mutations in the genetics that allowed for our adaptation to better use the enviornment that we live in. Over time, so have the other species. They also believe we are no better than the apes, deer, wolves or any other animal on the planet. If the theory of evolution is true, the various species will evolve to accomodate changes in their enviornment and those who don't were not fit enough. That is if you believe in evolution.

I personally don't believe in evolution, I believe in a higher power that I call God, who wants me to use what he has provided and also be a good steward of his gifts. In my mind,that means that we have been given oil, coal, nuclear technology, solar, wind and possibly other energy sources that we have not discovered yet. He would want us to use them all, but to not waste them. He has provided us with an intellect that allows us to solve problems and inprove our lives. Do I think that we have issues with polution. Yes I do, but not necessarily in the areas that we are discussing. I am concerned with the trash that is thrown away that will not biodegrade for centuries or even possibly millenia, mainly plastics.

Plastic is a problem because it takes soooooo long to dergade. Carbon, not so much. This whole carbon thing has been hyped so that enormous amounts of money can be made by those that are hypeing it. Scientists are often wrong and I believe that this time those that are spouting mass extinction because of carbon are wrong. They have been waffleing for at least 30 or more years on weather it will be global warming or will it be global cooling. They never talk about the fact that plants need carbon dioxide to exist. CO2 to them is like air is to us. This whole thing about increasing the global temperature enough to melt the ice caps is incorrect, as well just like they were incorrect 30 years ago when they said we were going to be in an ice age. There are studies by other scientists that show that the ice caps are shrinking in one area of both poles but is growing in other areas of both poles. That sounds fairly ballanced to me. The current doom sayers never tell you about the growth, only the melt.

This whole global warming disaster is NOT general concensus by any means, even though those that spout it say the debate is over. It is only over in their mind because they want to end debate before the sheeple realise THERE IS NO CRISIS. The refusal to debate just shows their fear that they will be proven wrong before their ajenda has been realised and they have had time to milk the peoples fear for all that they are worth.

Yes we need to be good stewards of our planet. That only makes sense. We, however, do not need to go to extremes. A good mix of all the energy sources we have been provided should be the plan. Not demonizing some types of energy so that others can be exploited to get a limited few rich. Many complain that Big Oil and Big Coal have done this already. If we are not careful thiose that want to control solar and wind will be the next Big Energy to control you. A diversity of energy sources, with none of them demonized is the way in which you prevent one energy group from having too much control in your life. It is also the way to prevent too much enviornmental impact from one source or another from spoiling the view, habitat, air or other concerns that we are having now around energy. Don't put your eggs in one basket!

This is my last post to this thread. My debate is over on this issue.

 

[me&thegals]

I don't have an agenda. I think it takes more faith or incredulity or whatever you want to call it to think this amount of human population and energy consumption would not change our climate than to believe it does.

No, you're right, it is not a unanimous consensus. But it is an overwhelming one. It's hard to debate when we all seem to have different sources of information and probably mistrust the sources we don't agree with. We have no way of personally traveling the earth to view the changes for ourselves and have to trust what we believe to be a good source of information.

This thread was about the economy. I think that living as lightly as I can on the earth does a lot of good for my pocketbook. I also believe that learning to use resources more responsibly as a nation could help us out of this slump.

I apologize if I have offended anybody here, since it had seemed like a really great, generally respectful discussion.

 

[me&thegals]

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. There is nothing that any of us can do that does not impact something on this earth. The fox hunts and a rabbit dies. Too many fox in an area, the rabbit population becomes almost extinct. When this happens many of the foxes die. The Rabbits then start to increase in number which then increases the fox population. It is a natural process.

I think this is so true. But nature corrects itself with massive die-outs of the overpopulated species. That would be us.

 

[DrakeMaiden]

But nature corrects itself with massive die-outs of the overpopulated species. That would be us.

Yes, that I will agree with. Basic petri dish biology.

So, for those who choose to argue from a religious perspective as opposed to a scientific perspective (intuitive rather than perceptual), do you believe that everything created on this earth is good? Or do you believe that the potential for evil exists on the planet and that humans are capable of temptation that could lead to their own destruction? Just a question, no offense intended.

I personally believe that humans are imperfect. I believe that we have brains, eyes, and other senses meant to keep us informed of our environment. I think science is a valid and even conservative means of understanding one's environment. I don't think science and religion necessarily have to butt heads, but apparently I am in a minority in this thinking.

Big Daddy, I couldn't remember the estimate on the glacier melt in North America, so I looked it up. Here is what I found [emphasis added]:

NORTH AMERICA

Glaciers in the Rocky Mountains and Western Coastal Ranges have experienced considerable losses during this century, and melting is accelerating rapidly in southern Alaska. Since Glacier National Park (Montana, USA) was established in 1910, more than two thirds of its glaciers and about 75% of its glacier area has disappeared29; if the present rate of warming continues, there will be no glaciers left in the Park by 2030 (30). In Banff, Jasper, and Yoho National Parks in the Canadian Rockies, glacier cover has decreased by at least 25% during the 20th century (31). South Cascade Glacier in coastal Washington (USA) lost 19 m of ice thickness between 1976 and 1995, ten times more than during the previous 18 years (32). Nearly all glaciers surveyed in Alaska are melting, and thinning rates in the last 5-7 years are more than twice those seen in previous decades (13).

(http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0907-wwf.htmlsource )

Edited for spelling.

 

[me&thegals]

I don't believe religion and science are mutually exclusive. One can help us understand the other, be in awe of the other.

To me, this earth is a beautiful gift, amazing and wondrous everywhere I look. I would hate to be the first creature (human) to destroy my own means of life.

I know people talk about dominion over all we have. I prefer to think about having a humble respect for it all and spirit of stewardship.