SS projects, solar hot water design - Sunsaver's tech stuff

[sunsaver]

If we can do anything to promote the generation of electicity at home, then that's a good start. Icu4dzs, help me find a source for a large helical spring. I think that really is good idea. The one i had was just a hand cranked dynamo that charged a battery. Your idea of adding the helical spring like a clock makes it novel. I want to build it. Even if i have to have the spring custom made, I want one!Yeah, we call extra freebees and fun stuff "Langnappe".

 

[sunsaver]

I love this forum too! All my energy inventions are intended to be open to the public domain. I've gotten a patent before. Making money as an inventor is a long hard road to hoe. I do it now just for fun and learning, or to help others.

 

[sunsaver]

I have a plan for the lids on my jelly jar battery so the water doesn't evaporate. The electrodes will be secured through small holes using silicone adhesive sealant. A tiny rubber grommet will be secured in a third hole, and the hole in the center of the grommet will be packed with cotton. This will allow the tiny amount of hydrogen and oxygen produced by electrolysis to escape, with out letting much of the water to evaporate. The lids will be ordinary mason jar lids with rings. I will drill the holes with a drill, secure the electrodes in the center of the holes by wrapping them with electrical tape until they have the correct diameter to support themselves in the holes, then seal with silicone. These removable lids will allow me to easily try out different electrolytes. I intend to build this battery tomorrow.
I'm still interested in the idea of a mechanical battery to power a small generator. Some long springs may work just as well as a helical spring. Don't have a vision of it in my head yet.
I think the mysterious recharging effects of my jelly jar battery, have something to do with the molar capacity of the electrolyte, magnesium sulfate. It is not a pure chemical but a solution in water. The act of discharging an electric current from the electropotential of the metals must "pull" the sulfate ions towards one of the electrodes, creating an internal resistance in the battery, which slowly reduces the amount of current that can be utilized. When the load is disconnected, electrical attraction of the ions comes to a stop. The solution gradually returns to an ambient state in which all sulfate molecules are evenly dissolved in the solution, and a uniform electropotential difference between the electrodes returns. Therefore, the battery seems to "recharge" itself after disconnection, taking several minutes to do so. An experiment to test this theory would be to run two identical batteries until the discharged state is observed in both. Then disconnect the two identical loads. Leave one battery untouched, but shake the other battery vigorously for several seconds and then reconnect both batteries to the load or voltmeter. If there is a difference in potential, then this theory will be confirmed.

 

[sunsaver]

My new jelly jar battery is under construction. I hope to connect it to my existing LED spot lighting system. The existing system was designed to be powered by my phone line, and even though it would work now if connected to the phone system, i am no longer paying for phone service. Therefore, if i were to connect to the phone line ac signal, it would constitute a theft of electricity from ATT. The only thing i hate more than ATT is a thief.
On a side note: i'd be willing to pay more in taxes, or sit through commercials, in order to see that every American has free access to broadband WIFI. Free ota TV needs a free ota replacement.
Today i made a WIFI signal booster using an adaptation of one of Nikola Tesla's patents. A metal plate is suspended up high above the metal roof, and connected by an insulated wire to a second plate indoors. It seems to be helping my WIFI reception, but more tests need to be made. I used aluminum pie plates for the receiver and transmitter.

 

[valmom]

I keep reading this thread trying to picture what you guys are talking about- I am so NOT mechanically inclined! But it sounds great

 

[Farmfresh]

I am reading away also. I just LOVE a good science experiment!!

 

[Icu4dzs]

Sunsaver,
The reaction will continue to "recharge" until the entire set of "reactants" has changed to no longer seek equilibrium. It may take quite a bit longer for the Magnesium and sulfur to change to Magnesium Oxide and ?Sulfur dioxide? (do you get any rotten egg smell from the jars?) But the rate of change will accelerate while the electrons are flowing and slow when they are NOT.

Just as an aside, don't forget you can get plastic tops for Mason jars. I don't recommend the metal ring/top assembly because they are metal and will corrode and you have to use an insulator. The plastic ones (both wide mouth and regular size) will function as an insulator and not corrode. Just a thought.

How about a falling weight like in a Grandfather Clock to create the torque? Works for a clock. Only needs to be wound every so often.
the heavier the weight, the more torque. The farther the travel, the longer it will work. I'm thinking something as high as the chimney of a house with an elevator like counter weight.

Just a few thoughts to add confusion to an already interesting discussion.

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[sunsaver]

Icu4dzs, did you read my post about a mechanical battery that would do exactly what you are talking about. I got the idea from you of having several weights on pulleys that would engage each other by means of a clutch mechanism, such that when each one reaches the bottom, the next clutch would engage. The power would be a function of how high the battery is, and how heavy the weights are. I think you should give yourself more credit. I don't usually come up with the grand idea these days, but when inspire by others, i can help with the nuts and bolts of putting their ideas into practical application. These days im more of a prototype designer, or patent reader/writer, than an inventor. I like to take other people's ideas and bring them into the public domain for the benefit of humanity.
I don't really understand the chemical reaction that is taking place with my jelly jar battery, as i call it. There is only a trace of zinc plating on the copper electrode, and very little sign of out gassing. No odors. Very high voltages can be obtained by connecting the jars (cells) in series. Even so, i have not been able to burn out the LED with these higher voltage. I assume there is a high internal resistance. When the LED has been on for several hours, it gets very dim but still useful as a night light. When disconnected, the voltage is read to be about 3 volts and slowly climbs back up to 9 or 10 volts. I had assumed that some of the water molecules are getting ionized and attracted to the positive electrode (copper). This prevents most of the electrolyte (magnesium sulfate) from touching the electrode and conducting electrons. Pure water is a poor conductor. When the load is removed, the solution returns to a more uniform state with positively charged ions surrounding the copper electrode, and negatively charged ions surrounding the zinc plated steel electrode. This looks like the battery is recharging, when you watch it on the voltmeter. I figure i'll probable end up with a solution of copper sulfate and magnesium ferrite with all of the zinc plated onto the copper electrode, but i never took chemistry in college because i suck at math, and that's mostly what chemistry is. I doubt i would get any oxides because this is an electrolytic reaction in which water is being split into hydrogen and oxygen gases that need to be vented in order to prevent explosion of the cell. But like i said, im no chemist and have no idea what is really going on with this battery. It does seem to be a very long lived battery that is not capable of producing high currents with magnesium sulfate as the electrolyte.
Thanks for the tip on plastic lids. I'll have to look for those.

 

[Farmfresh]

Those lids are great for storing things in a jar as well. Buy extra.

 

[Icu4dzs]

Icu4dzs, did you read my post about a mechanical battery that would do exactly what you are talking about. I got the idea from you of having several weights on pulleys that would engage each other by means of a clutch mechanism, such that when each one reaches the bottom, the next clutch would engage. The power would be a function of how high the battery is, and how heavy the weights are. I think you should give yourself more credit. I don't usually come up with the grand idea these days, but when inspire by others, i can help with the nuts and bolts of putting their ideas into practical application. These days im more of a prototype designer, or patent reader/writer, than an inventor. I like to take other people's ideas and bring them into the public domain for the benefit of humanity.
I don't really understand the chemical reaction that is taking place with my jelly jar battery, as i call it. There is only a trace of zinc plating on the copper electrode, and very little sign of out gassing. No odors. Very high voltages can be obtained by connecting the jars (cells) in series. Even so, i have not been able to burn out the LED with these higher voltage. I assume there is a high internal resistance. When the LED has been on for several hours, it gets very dim but still useful as a night light. When disconnected, the voltage is read to be about 3 volts and slowly climbs back up to 9 or 10 volts. I had assumed that some of the water molecules are getting ionized and attracted to the positive electrode (copper). This prevents most of the electrolyte (magnesium sulfate) from touching the electrode and conducting electrons. Pure water is a poor conductor. When the load is removed, the solution returns to a more uniform state with positively charged ions surrounding the copper electrode, and negatively charged ions surrounding the zinc plated steel electrode. This looks like the battery is recharging, when you watch it on the voltmeter. I figure i'll probable end up with a solution of copper sulfate and magnesium ferrite with all of the zinc plated onto the copper electrode, but i never took chemistry in college because i suck at math, and that's mostly what chemistry is. I doubt i would get any oxides because this is an electrolytic reaction in which water is being split into hydrogen and oxygen gases that need to be vented in order to prevent explosion of the cell. But like i said, im no chemist and have no idea what is really going on with this battery. It does seem to be a very long lived battery that is not capable of producing high currents with magnesium sulfate as the electrolyte.
Thanks for the tip on plastic lids. I'll have to look for those.

SS,
Yes, I did read it. Not sure what I was seeing in my brain, though. In either case, this can work. What I like best about it is the fact that the energy required to charge the system is HUM-EN rather than EL-EN or Chem-EN! There is NO waste product discharged to the atmosphere and no chemical change to cause any toxic response! It is always re-newable and has almost no vulnerable moving parts! That is what excited me about the idea in the first place. I have tried to explain this to a number of "engineering types" and none of them have ever found the idea even remotely interesting...their loss.

Please tell me the concentrations of your electrolyte solution and actual construct of the batteries. I have lots of Mason Jars and the plastic tops. (They cost about $4 a box for about 6 of them.) Obviously, this is a time intensive and material intensive project. I'd like to try to make the counterweight/spring operated generator but my time is my biggest enemy. I don't have any time.

I do like the idea of the serial weights but in the end, someone has to wind up the box. I am thinking that one in every room in the house will be geared so a 5 year old can go wind it up. If you leave the room, it will go off just because it runs out of "spring" and has to be wound up again. But the energy product is what YOU make of it, not someone elses energy! That is the key difference.

I guess we need to share some drawings sooner or later because my "vision" isn't working as well right now.
Gotta love this stuff, eh?
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