Storing jars of food.

Justme

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Baymule, apparently I wasn't clear enough. It's the round ones that are older,sorry. Supposedly they discovered that by making them slightly square they could use a little less material (at a time when materials were a premium) without sacrificing volume. Someday soon I'll try to get some pics of the ones I have but right now it 100 in the shade, I don't even want to guess what it's like in the storage shed where my empty jars are right now and most of my older stuff is out there.
Moolie, I cannot speak for Canadian style jars cause I have limited my research to American. But all American canning jars are now the square style. Some it's kinda hard to tell at first glance but basically they won't roll off a counter when laid on their side.
Also Moolie, your glass lids, are they clear glass or the white milk glass? Mine that I have pressured canned with are they clear glass - they seam to be much heavier than the milk glass ones. You are right though they will break but I have more often seen small chips in the milk glass and big chunk breaks in the clear glass. And I didn't take into account that you were Canadian in my earlier post bout your jar finds. But at the prices you are able to find them I might have to think about it anyway. Sometimes I think I'd actually like your size mouth. :hide hmm my fingers typed that before my mind heard it, I do mean jar mouth there. But back to jars my hands cannot fit inside the regular mouth like they used to and yet the wide mouth just seems too big.
I am on the search for cheap smaller jars-less than a pint if anyone happens to come across a good deal let me know.

Also does anyone know if the Old zinc lids contain lead? Or are they lead free. If they are lead free I might be really interested in them as I have to replace rings way too often because of rust.
Yet those old lids that have been around forever still seem to be in great shape.
 

moolie

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Justme said:
Moolie, I cannot speak for Canadian style jars cause I have limited my research to American. But all American canning jars are now the square style. Some it's kinda hard to tell at first glance but basically they won't roll off a counter when laid on their side.
Ah, good to know :)

Justme said:
Also Moolie, your glass lids, are they clear glass or the white milk glass? Mine that I have pressured canned with are they clear glass - they seam to be much heavier than the milk glass ones. You are right though they will break but I have more often seen small chips in the milk glass and big chunk breaks in the clear glass. And I didn't take into account that you were Canadian in my earlier post bout your jar finds. But at the prices you are able to find them I might have to think about it anyway. Sometimes I think I'd actually like your size mouth. :hide hmm my fingers typed that before my mind heard it, I do mean jar mouth there. But back to jars my hands cannot fit inside the regular mouth like they used to and yet the wide mouth just seems too big.
Mine are clear glass, and very thick like you say. Where are you located? If there's an inexpensive way to get you some GEM mouth-size jars with glass lids, I'm all for it :)

Justme said:
Also does anyone know if the Old zinc lids contain lead? Or are they lead free. If they are lead free I might be really interested in them as I have to replace rings way too often because of rust.
Yet those old lids that have been around forever still seem to be in great shape.
Zinc is a different metal than lead, so I can't imagine why the zinc lids would have lead in them. Most of my rings that fit over my glass lids are zinc and they don't touch the food, so I use them. But I know it's not recommended to use the old one-piece zinc lids because it's hard to tell if they are sealed.

edited: Oh, and lead melts at a low temperature, so I don't think anyone would ever think it's a good idea to make rings out of it that are constantly being heated in the canning process :)
 

cheepo

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I have not seen..the glass lids before...
but they sure..look lovely...dinner looks scrumptious...

am wondering however, how the canning process works.???
do you boil the rubber rings...and the top glass...
or just the rubber..???
and I would presume the rubber rings could be used over and over???
:pop :idunno :pop :idunno
 

k15n1

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Justme said:
...I do miss hearing that satisfying ping of a jar sealing though...
Yeah, I miss that sound and the visual deformation of the lid that indicates a good seal.
 

k15n1

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Justme said:
...I do have a few glass lids and have pressure canned with no problems...
I've always wondered about how fragile jars are in a boiling water bath vs a pressure cooker. The difference in temperature is less than 50 oF and it's not even very hot compared to the melting point of glass. I looked around for clues and couldn't find much that looked applicable. There's research on the topic, but I couldn't get access to the articles I found. Anyway, what I did find was that there are effects (fatigue, for example) at temperatures as low as 200 oC, but mostly at higher temps, like 500 oC. Still, canning using a water bath is 100 oC and 10 psi is less than 220 oC. And the pressure in the jars should be low because steam is constantly venting out. Well, I don't know the answer, but I do wonder if the problem is caused more by over-tightening lids than using old jars (or non-canning jars).
 

~gd

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k15n1 said:
Justme said:
...I do have a few glass lids and have pressure canned with no problems...
I've always wondered about how fragile jars are in a boiling water bath vs a pressure cooker. The difference in temperature is less than 50 oF and it's not even very hot compared to the melting point of glass. I looked around for clues and couldn't find much that looked applicable. There's research on the topic, but I couldn't get access to the articles I found. Anyway, what I did find was that there are effects (fatigue, for example) at temperatures as low as 200 oC, but mostly at higher temps, like 500 oC. Still, canning using a water bath is 100 oC and 10 psi is less than 220 oC. And the pressure in the jars should be low because steam is constantly venting out. Well, I don't know the answer, but I do wonder if the problem is caused more by over-tightening lids than using old jars (or non-canning jars).
THE PROBLEMS if any are usually caused by a too rapid release of pressure in the pressure canner the cans can vent but not usually as fast as the vessel. Most manufactures deal with this by having a reduced vent but people like to apply extertor cooling which lowers the vessel temperature and pressure way too fast and if the ring is too tight the jar cracks or even bursts. Remember the cans are designed to resist vacuum not pressure!
 

Justme

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Moolie thanks for pointing out my not thinking. I never thought about the melting points of metals. I was only thinking of things that might have been used at a time when they didn't know it wasn't safe.
K15n1, I agree I think there is probably more issues with over tightening rings. In over 30 years of canning I've only had a handful or two of jars break. And I have even used mayo jars. Doesn't seem to be any pattern whether I was water bath or pressure canning although I do much more pressure canning. It does seem the bands were real tight on those that broke or things like the sudden temp change as in taking it out of the pot when the air conditioner was working really well and the room was really cool (not a frequent occurance when canning) or setting a jar down on on a cool wet surface. I have actually found that almost all the jars that have broken are newer ones. I don't think I have ever broken one of my old jars while canning with them. Of course I thoroughly inspect all jars and if there are flaws then I use them for dry goods only.
 
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