Warning!! Don't bother opening if you're not of the Christian Faith:>)

[FarmerChick]

Like, when my grandfather-in-law calls black people a bad word, I correct him.

***scottyg
this always amazes me. I never correct people. My best friend Barb is true southern...the words she says is her own business. I never feel the need or the right to correct someone. THEY KNOW what they are saying, believe me. It is their expressions...let them have it....whether politically correct or whatever nonsense phrase they say now. I am not going to correct an adult. they know, so why bother---now that is just my opinion of course..LOL----and when I say something, "someone doesn't agree with" my comment back is---I know what I am saying. Don't correct me! That is just my personal take on that.

I said I hate the ad! I do. The wording to me is wrong. My opinion.

I do understand you are just commenting on our thoughts and opinions....I am not fudged by that ever.

 

[ScottyG]

Scott, with all due respect, I don't need an education in humanism, christianity, and the interactions between them. I am very well versed in humanism, I just don't care for it.

Sorry if that's how I came off. I totally didn't mean it as an educational thing at all. I, in fact, don't agree with what the bus says either. All I meant to say was that you said they were saying "God doesn't exist" just to incite anger. And I was saying that they're saying it not to provoke, but simply because that's what they believe.

Like, the "Only Jesus Saves" bus stop near here. I'm sure it angers any local Muslims, because the "only" part of that sentence implies that Allah can not save, only Jesus. An angering thought if you don't believe in Jesus. But I don't think the people who paid for that ad were trying to anger anyone. They just wanted to fervently express their beliefs. Just like the humanists.

Don't tell me to say it differently. I have every right to say it how I wish.

I totally agree with you, Q_A. I think it's pretty jerky to be annoyed with someone for saying Merry Christmas. But I still disagree (politely, here too) that it's violating anyone's freedom of speech. Nobody is trying to take away your right to say Merry Christmas, but some people are offended by it (wrongly, I think) and might correct you. They have a right to be offended, just as you have a right to be cheerful about Christmas. You can say anything you want, and I hope you keep doing so! But they, in turn, can also say anything they want. "I'd prefer Happy Holidays," for instance. Again, I think they're kind of silly for thinking that way, but they have the right to think whatever they want, just like you and me.

this always amazes me. I never correct people. My best friend Barb is true southern...the words she says is her own business. I never feel the need or the right to correct someone. THEY KNOW what they are saying, believe me.

I said I hate the ad! I do. The wording to me is wrong. My opinion.

I do understand you are just commenting on our thoughts and opinions....I am not fudged by that ever.

I don't correct people much either, Karen... feels wrong to do so. But the relative in question never really saw any black people before he moved to the US in his 30s, and says really ridiculously horrible things about them without really thinking about it. I never scold him for it... obviously he's much older and wiser than me, and it's not my place. But a little word about how his beloved granddaughter is friends with a lot of black people who are smart and talented (unlike his characterization) might help him stop thinking such hateful things. It's his right to think them, and my right to be young and plucky and subtly try to convince him otherwise.

I totally think it's a-okay that you hate the ad. I don't like it much either. I just don't think it's a tool of Satan, or an attack on Christianity, or evil incarnate either. It's some people with an opinion, who got a bunch of money together so they could express it publicly. They're probably pissing a lot of people off, but it's their right to do so.

And I hope none of this is offending anyone. I really enjoy having these sorts of discussions, but I fear some may take them as incendiary or mean. I don't mean that at all. Just enjoying a little sharing of opinions on these topics.

 

[reinbeau]

Scott, with all due respect, I don't need an education in humanism, christianity, and the interactions between them. I am very well versed in humanism, I just don't care for it.

Sorry if that's how I came off. I totally didn't mean it as an educational thing at all. I, in fact, don't agree with what the bus says either. All I meant to say was that you said they were saying "God doesn't exist" just to incite anger. And I was saying that they're saying it not to provoke, but simply because that's what they believe.

I understand you didn't mean to come off 'preachy', but - how much do you really know about the American Humanists? Paul Kurtz was on Good Morning America this week discussing this very subject (the bus) and yes, they absolutely did put it out there to incite, and at the same time to attract any like minded people. They are quite in-your-face about their beliefs, which is as off-putting to me as any proselyting religious zealot.

 

[VT-Chicklit]

Part of being an American living in America is our right to have and express our opinions and thoughts on things. This includes religion and politics. Unfortunatly in these times of political correctness, views that are not mainstream are given more weight than the mainstream views. Mainly because the "squeeky wheel gets the grease". They yell and protest and the media makes a big deal out percieved slights that they claim they have endured. This is now what is considered news in America and is sent out over the air waves to the world.

The majority of Americans go thru life not intentionally doing anything to offend anyone. We are constantly told we have offended one thin skinned group or another because we believe a certain way, vote a certain way and live our lives a certain way. It seems that the only people who have a right to free speech are those who are offended.

The United States is no longer United. It is made up of the silent majority and a very vocal minority. Life is too short and is going to get too tough to worry about the perception of UNINTENDED slights. Political correctness has made some Americans thin skinned, and the excessive attention paid to them by the media weakens us all. While we fight amongst ourselves, others in the world watch and wait for their time to take advantage of our weakness.

 

[FarmerChick]

scottyg
I like your posts, you throw it out there and it is fine by me. as long as we can chat back and no one gets ticks it is cool.

 

[ScottyG]

I understand you didn't mean to come off 'preachy', but - how much do you really know about the American Humanists? Paul Kurtz was on Good Morning America this week discussing this very subject (the bus) and yes, they absolutely did put it out there to incite, and at the same time to attract any like minded people. They are quite in-your-face about their beliefs, which is as off-putting to me as any proselyting religious zealot.

I honestly don't know much about the American Humanists, but I don't think that makes my reaction to the ad any less valid. The American Humanists might have many other views that would be off-putting to me, but this isn't one of them, and it's all I know of the group. Perhaps I shouldn't be talking about this, as I'm under-informed, clearly. But I think my visceral reaction to the ad is just as valid as anyone else's.

To my eyes, saying "There is no God" is just plain different than proselytizing religious zealots. For one, there is no conversion attempt in this. It doesn't say "There is no God, and if you believe otherwise, call this number, and we'll attempt to convince you." They're not showing up at my doorstep and trying to wrangle me into admitting the non-existence of God. They're not offering to help the poor of America, but only if they agree to listen to Atheistic sermons. They're simply stating their opinion, boldly. Yes, I'm sure they expect some people to be offended. But to me it's just not the same.

It's the same as that "Only Jesus Saves" bus stop I keep bringing up. To me, that's not offensive. I disagree with it, it's a public message that assumes my belief system is wrong... but I don't think it's intruding on my life, trying to convert me. Whoever paid for that ad is probably enjoying its public presence, and maybe hoping for a convert or two, but not actively pursuing such things. To me, same as the "There is no God" bus. Provocative and possibly offending, yes. But proselytizing? Nope.

I guess what it boils down to, for me, is that I find it disturbing that any statement of there being no God is seen as incendiary. I've been on message boards (not this one!) where just saying that is seen as an attack. This, by the same people whose signatures on every post proclaim their religion proudly. And to me, I find that attitude difficult to handle, and I try to combat it. My lack of belief is not an attempt to bother anyone, or an attack on anyone, or a conscious effort to provoke people. It's just what I believe, and I don't think I need to hide it or be ashamed of it.

So, maybe I'm projecting my own thoughts about this onto the bus ad. Maybe the bus ad really is just mean-spirited. But I still resent the idea that just saying what you believe is automatically an incendiary attack, if that belief happens to not include God. If your beliefs include Jesus, you can shout them out loud in Congress, on television, on the campaign trail, anywhere you want. But if they don't include any God, well then you'd better keep them to yourself, or else you're "picking a fight."

Sorry. Ranting. Smiling face on.... now! Hi everyone!

 

[roosmom]

Like I said,* I dont know how I missed this thread *. I guess I should have never posted to it. I am sorry. I will think twice about posting to an old thread, AND one that I havent fully read. This is my fault, can we now just walk away?

 

[FarmerChick]

RM
there is no fault here..just active conversation.
I don't find it bad at all opening up an older thread.

 

[ScottyG]

If the conversation is making people uncomfortable, I'm happy to stop. I thought it was kind of an interesting one... people clearly coming from very different perspectives, explaining their point-of-view in a pretty polarizing issue... but we all seem to be pretty nice about it all. But I don't mean to agitate here. Just thought it was an interesting conversation, is all. If it seems too heated for folks (though, honestly, I don't feel like we're being all that heated in our debate), I'm happy to stop commenting.


On another note...

Life is too short and is going to get too tough to worry about the perception of UNINTENDED slights. Political correctness has made some Americans thin skinned

See, I totally agree with this. I don't think you should worry about unintentionally slighting people, unless they say something that makes you reconsider your position... in which case, feel free to re-consider.

But nobody is trying to take away your right to say whatever you want. Your constitutional protection is still very intact, and you can express whatever opinions you see fit. But so can thin-skinned politically correct over-sensitive people. You have the right to say whatever you want, but they have the right to be thin-skinned and easily offended, if that's their nature. Neither side is being silenced, neither side is being prevented from stating their opinion... both of you are expressing your opinions, and that's what's great about our free speech rights. You can speak your mind without worry, and the person you offend can speak their mind without worry.

Or to put it another way, you both have the right to say your opinions on these things. Your opinion may be liable to bother some people, and a "politically correct" person's opinion might be liable to bother you. But you both get to say those opinions.

 

[FarmerChick]

politically correct
OMG I hate that phrase to the max!

but anyway, everyone has a right to express....everyone has a right to say they like or dislike. But don't ever think there isn't underlying censorship. There is big time.

It is never a fair playing field out there in this world. And there never will be anytime soon.